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My daughter took covid vaccine in Seminary (Israel)
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:15 am
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
I am so frustrated with people here. I said HOW I WOULD FEEL based on my relationship with my daughter and the past history we share. I said in my circles. I don’t know if you are in a very different societal culture, if you are young and view yourself as not much older than her and independent and resent people thinking your age is not an adult, have/came from a dysfunctional family and have a poor relationship with your parents, or any of 12,000,000 different reasons.
Here what people are saying without forcing your own agenda.

I’m out, not because I am offended, but because why bother. Dialogue need people to actually hear what you say and not talk over you.

OP, I don’t know if my point were helpful or irrelevant to you. Best of luck.

Not sure what you want us to say. You say that YOU FEEL that your daughter is still a child and that the final decision is yours alone.

Okay - some people feel that way about their 30-year-old children.

What do you want from us?
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:19 am
OP, I can tell that you are upset and frustrated because your dd did something against your wishes that you do not feel was in her best interests. That has got to be very upsetting.
That said, as a mom of several adult kids, this is something that happens and will continue to happen as they grow up and away from the home. You don't say whether she was coerced or made the decision against your expressive wishes, but either way she is legally an adult and is permitted to make these types of decisions for herself.
OP, take some time to process your feelings, as they are valid. However, once processed, you can begin to start living the new reality where your children don't always follow your advice and oftentimes make mistakes. It can be really hard to watch!
Hatzlacha.
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amother




Silver
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:22 am
Elfrida wrote:
It doesn't matter what the seminary is telling then to do, this has not been authorised by the Israeli government or Misrad HaBriut. The seminary needs to take more responsibility. It ends up with the students getting upset when we tell them they are not entitled to a vaccine.

In terms of daily activities, they have a ishur machlim which gives the the same rights as anyone who has had two vaccines.

Rabbanim should not be advising students to go against the law.


Actually there is a problem with this issue. There are many American girls who had covid in America and don't have Israeli documentation so according to Israeli rules they can't get the ishur machlim, technically they aren't supposed to get the vaccine and then they can't get the ishur in any way so they are being told to just take the vaccine because they can't prove with Israeli documents that they had covid.
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:25 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
Actually there is a problem with this issue. There are many American girls who had covid in America and don't have Israeli documentation so according to Israeli rules they can't get the ishur machlim, technically they aren't supposed to get the vaccine and then they can't get the ishur in any way so they are being told to just take the vaccine because they can't prove with Israeli documents that they had covid.


They can bring the documentation from America to their doctor, who can then authorize a serological (antibody) test. If that comes back positive he can give them an אישור מילים על סמך נוגדנים. There's a special form for it.
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amother




Silver
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:29 am
Elfrida wrote:
They can bring the documentation from America to their doctor, who can then authorize a serological (antibody) test. If that comes back positive he can give them an אישור מילים על סמך נוגדנים. There's a special form for it.


1. Many don't have documentation because in America last year many weren't getting tested.

2. We had documented antibodies from America and the drs in Israel would not even use that as evidence to refer my daughter for antibodies testing. They just kept telling her to just get the vaccine. I fought and fought and finally she got tested and had very high antibodies still. So now she can finally get that ishur but it was very hard and everyone from the seminary to the drs really tried to not allow that to happen.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:30 am
Quote:

Oh my god what’s wrong with people. OP literally said she’s looking for empathy. If you can’t look past your own opinion to offer that then go post on a different thread.
I’m sorry OP, it must be so hard to see your daughter do something you aren’t sure is best for her. I hope only good comes from it!


Thank you so much! I felt so validated when I read it.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:46 am
Quote:

Are you upset at your daughter or at the seminary? Are you worried about her or feel hurt that she has different views than you have? How does she feel about it?


It seems like my daughter went around seminary rules. Seminary required the consent form. Unless that changed, but I think it didn't. I didn't ask. In any case, I'm sure the seminary said that people should take and it will be fine, but there are still those who didn't take because of no consent from parents. I'm not sure even how different her views are than mine. I believe she thinks it's possible the vaccine can cause a problem, but she wants laxer covid rules now. She decided the tradeoff was worthwhile after a lot of thinking. I think she might already be regretting her decision. I hope she has the tools to deal with that, and if someone is going to worry, it seems not worth it to take the vaccine even if it does not do physical harm in the end. It seems like she took the vaccine for freedom, not for medical reasons.
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:49 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
1. Many don't have documentation because in America last year many weren't getting tested.

2. We had documented antibodies from America and the drs in Israel would not even use that as evidence to refer my daughter for antibodies testing. They just kept telling her to just get the vaccine. I fought and fought and finally she got tested and had very high antibodies still. So now she can finally get that ishur but it was very hard and everyone from the seminary to the drs really tried to not allow that to happen.


If they never got tested and there's no evidence that they had Corona, there isn't much to do about it.

Relying on antibody tests isn't encouraged because no one really knows how long the antibodies really last. The early antibody tests were unreliable, and generally one country/medical system doesn't like relying one what was done in another system.

The ishur machlim will expire anyway at the end of June, and people who have had Corona will be expected to get the vaccine by then, so a lot of doctors are saying not to waste time on antibodies and just do the vaccine anyway.

However I'm glad you agree that it is an option, and got what you wanted.

It is not clear whether this ishur will give her an exemption from bidud if she leaves the country for Pesach and is able to come back.
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cutestbaby




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:50 am
I'm sorry, this must be hard for you. But... your child is nearly an adult, yes? If she comes home from seminary in June and tells you she wants to start dating, I'm assuming you would let her.
If she's ready to get married in a couple of months, then she is old enough to make her own decisions in pretty much any area of life. That's what being an adult means, and all you can do is accept that.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:55 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:

She decided the tradeoff was worthwhile after a lot of thinking. I think she might already be regretting her decision. I hope she has the tools to deal with that.


Making decisions and regretting them and dealing with the consequences is also part of being an adult. At least she is also getting positive results and enjoying her freedom.

But if it was her decision, she needs to take responsibility for it. Don't blame the seminary.
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amother




Emerald
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 10:03 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Quote:

Are you upset at your daughter or at the seminary? Are you worried about her or feel hurt that she has different views than you have? How does she feel about it?


It seems like my daughter went around seminary rules. Seminary required the consent form. Unless that changed, but I think it didn't. I didn't ask. In any case, I'm sure the seminary said that people should take and it will be fine, but there are still those who didn't take because of no consent from parents. I'm not sure even how different her views are than mine. I believe she thinks it's possible the vaccine can cause a problem, but she wants laxer covid rules now. She decided the tradeoff was worthwhile after a lot of thinking. I think she might already be regretting her decision. I hope she has the tools to deal with that, and if someone is going to worry, it seems not worth it to take the vaccine even if it does not do physical harm in the end. It seems like she took the vaccine for freedom, not for medical reasons.


The support she needs now from you is a clear message that regret and worry are going to mentally drain her. The choice was made. Time to focus the brain on other things... like looking forward to the freedoms she is getting.
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 10:03 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Quote:

Are you upset at your daughter or at the seminary? Are you worried about her or feel hurt that she has different views than you have? How does she feel about it?


It seems like my daughter went around seminary rules. Seminary required the consent form. Unless that changed, but I think it didn't. I didn't ask. In any case, I'm sure the seminary said that people should take and it will be fine, but there are still those who didn't take because of no consent from parents. I'm not sure even how different her views are than mine. I believe she thinks it's possible the vaccine can cause a problem, but she wants laxer covid rules now. She decided the tradeoff was worthwhile after a lot of thinking. I think she might already be regretting her decision. I hope she has the tools to deal with that, and if someone is going to worry, it seems not worth it to take the vaccine even if it does not do physical harm in the end. It seems like she took the vaccine for freedom, not for medical reasons.


Do you think she might be having "buyer's remorse" because of your extreme reaction?

She is nearly an adult, if you are using guilt to control her ("it will upset my mother") then it is time to let go.

I understand this is hard for you, individuation is a separation for both the child and adult, but you are stifling her development as a person. This is an important developmental milestone.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 10:10 am
OP, could you clarify something for us?

How old was your DD when she went into sem? If she was 17, then I would understand needing a parental consent form.

If she had a birthday and turned 18 while in sem, then the consent form would no longer be legally valid.

The difference between 17 and 18 makes all the difference in the world.

I have never heard of an 18yo needing parental consent for anything, in any country.

I understand your concerns. I let DD decide if she wanted the HPV vaccine. She did a lot of research, talked to her doctors, and decided to get it. That vaccine has a disturbing rate of potential vaccine injury, but she decided it was worth the risk. Her body, her choice.

I'm still nervous for her, but all I can do is daven.
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amother




Gray
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 10:14 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Quote:

Are you upset at your daughter or at the seminary? Are you worried about her or feel hurt that she has different views than you have? How does she feel about it?


It seems like my daughter went around seminary rules. Seminary required the consent form. Unless that changed, but I think it didn't. I didn't ask. In any case, I'm sure the seminary said that people should take and it will be fine, but there are still those who didn't take because of no consent from parents. I'm not sure even how different her views are than mine. I believe she thinks it's possible the vaccine can cause a problem, but she wants laxer covid rules now. She decided the tradeoff was worthwhile after a lot of thinking. I think she might already be regretting her decision. I hope she has the tools to deal with that, and if someone is going to worry, it seems not worth it to take the vaccine even if it does not do physical harm in the end. It seems like she took the vaccine for freedom, not for medical reasons.


She is probably only regretting it because you are making her feel guilty
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amother




Cyan
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 10:23 am
I’m sorry for you if she did something you didn’t want her to do, but now that it’s done please don’t make her feel bad about it. The worry she has now is likely to be the worst thing that happens to her because of this vaccine. It’s unfair for her to be worrying if it’s only because of what you have said to her since she has taken the vaccine.

It’s done, now move on and don’t make her feel bad. It will only ruin your relationship with her.

Some people have a tendency to worry terribly and it literally takes over their lives. You don’t want that to happen to her.
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amother




Brown
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 10:37 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
1. Many don't have documentation because in America last year many weren't getting tested.

2. We had documented antibodies from America and the drs in Israel would not even use that as evidence to refer my daughter for antibodies testing. They just kept telling her to just get the vaccine. I fought and fought and finally she got tested and had very high antibodies still. So now she can finally get that ishur but it was very hard and everyone from the seminary to the drs really tried to not allow that to happen.


They don't want the documented from America, they want the antibody test done in Israel.
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amother




Powderblue
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 10:39 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Quote:

Are you upset at your daughter or at the seminary? Are you worried about her or feel hurt that she has different views than you have? How does she feel about it?


It seems like my daughter went around seminary rules. Seminary required the consent form. Unless that changed, but I think it didn't. I didn't ask. In any case, I'm sure the seminary said that people should take and it will be fine, but there are still those who didn't take because of no consent from parents. I'm not sure even how different her views are than mine. I believe she thinks it's possible the vaccine can cause a problem, but she wants laxer covid rules now. She decided the tradeoff was worthwhile after a lot of thinking. I think she might already be regretting her decision. I hope she has the tools to deal with that, and if someone is going to worry, it seems not worth it to take the vaccine even if it does not do physical harm in the end. It seems like she took the vaccine for freedom, not for medical reasons.


Please don’t guilt trip her or make her worry. That is the opposite of what a mother should do.
It’s done. You should all move on.
In fact I’d think your job at this point as a parent is to reassure her now that it is done.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 10:40 am
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
They don't want the documented from America, they want the antibody test done in Israel.

As I understand it, you may need documentation from the doctor who treated or diagnosed you in order to get the test from the kuppah.
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amother




Vermilion
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 10:42 am
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
They don't want the documented from America, they want the antibody test done in Israel.


A private antibody test in Israel costs a couple of hundred shekels, anyone can do it, no need to fight the system.
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tweety1




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 11:14 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
Oh my god what’s wrong with people. OP literally said she’s looking for empathy. If you can’t look past your own opinion to offer that then go post on a different thread.
I’m sorry OP, it must be so hard to see your daughter do something you aren’t sure is best for her. I hope only good comes from it!

Love this!
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