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Is this mean or good parenting?
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 12:06 pm
nchr wrote:
This is a perfect example of why I never start with offering options to children. Once you start asking them which of the two they want, it opens up the floor for them to ask for a dirty one. I know there is validity to teaching children to make decisions or giving them choices, but I am not on that level yet and for my sanity and the sanity of my household I can't go there. I won't power struggle either it's just more like ok, here is your bowl, next. Maybe while this woman has a newborn she shouldn't worry about stepping on her 5 year old's toes and catering to his whims and can try to be a perfect mother in one or two months from now.

It’s good that you realize that not giving choices isn’t ideal just practical in the moment. It’s true we can’t always be the ideal parents we want to be. In such cases we try to minimize damage, choose the lesser of the evils so to speak.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 12:06 pm
nchr wrote:
This is a perfect example of why I never start with offering options to children. Once you start asking them which of the two they want, it opens up the floor for them to ask for a dirty one. I know there is validity to teaching children to make decisions or giving them choices, but I am not on that level yet and for my sanity and the sanity of my household I can't go there. I won't power struggle either it's just more like ok, here is your bowl, next. Maybe while this woman has a newborn she shouldn't worry about stepping on her 5 year old's toes and catering to his whims and can try to be a perfect mother in one or two months from now.


It's great if that works for you and your children. Some people have kids who need choices. They don't give you the option of just handing them their bowl and thinking you are up to next.

I find that often people who do not have a child like this, think it's their parenting that lead to their children being more easygoing, etc....not until they get an "I need choices, I need to feel in charge" type of child do they realize their parenting skills need some muscle-flexing.

I agree that a new mother can cut herself some slack here and there. OP is clearly trying to do her best.
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Twinster




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 12:09 pm
Chayalle wrote:
Brat originally implied mamzerus.


Never knew that.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 12:10 pm
Chayalle wrote:
It's great if that works for you and your children. Some people have kids who need choices. They don't give you the option of just handing them their bowl and thinking you are up to next.

I find that often people who do not have a child like this, think it's their parenting that lead to their children being more easygoing, etc....not until they get an "I need choices, I need to feel in charge" type of child do they realize their parenting skills need some muscle-flexing.

I agree that a new mother can cut herself some slack here and there. OP is clearly trying to do her best.

And sometimes parenting really does minimize this behavior but it’s not always a good thing. I remember telling my therapist that my kids are very independent. And they were. Because I ignored them and wasn’t present most of the time. They knew that crying and begging was useless. I was a stone wall.
Well, my kids are not that independent. Nowadays they want help with many things, they want to talk to me, okay games with me, and they cry when they don’t get what they want. And I am thankful that they do.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 12:15 pm
Zehava wrote:
And sometimes parenting really does minimize this behavior but it’s not always a good thing. I remember telling my therapist that my kids are very independent. And they were. Because I ignored them and wasn’t present most of the time. They knew that crying and begging was useless. I was a stone wall.
Well, my kids are not that independent. Nowadays they want help with many things, they want to talk to me, okay games with me, and they cry when they don’t get what they want. And I am thankful that they do.


Some kids crave the ability to make their own choices. I have one like that. This type of child won't just go along with - take this, next. It would kill their sense of self.

That's what I was responding to.

It's hard to know where OP's child is coming from - is it a craving for more service from Mom (at a difficult time) or is it a need to assert himself and have his cereal in the bowl of his choice.
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nchr




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 12:15 pm
Chayalle wrote:
It's great if that works for you and your children. Some people have kids who need choices. They don't give you the option of just handing them their bowl and thinking you are up to next.

I find that often people who do not have a child like this, think it's their parenting that lead to their children being more easygoing, etc....not until they get an "I need choices, I need to feel in charge" type of child do they realize their parenting skills need some muscle-flexing.

I agree that a new mother can cut herself some slack here and there. OP is clearly trying to do her best.


I do have a child or two who need to feel in charge, but I understand what you and Zehava are saying. I'm not not offering a choice so I can feel powerful or be in charge. It's more rooted in Yiddishkeit and also my fear of it creating more drama so to speak.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 12:16 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
ds is 5.5 years old and wants oatmeal for breakfast. None of the bowls he likes are clean. His mother gives him the option to choose one of two clean bowls that are available. He says he doesn’t want either of those (in a whining tone). His mom says “ok, If you want your favorite bowl, you can wash it yourself”.

Is this mean or good parenting?

I’ll add one thing- one of ds’s “love languages” seems to be “acts of service”.

And I’ll add another thing - family has a newborn baby and morning was hectic .

With just this information alone, I’m curious to hear your thoughts. Is the child being unreasonable and whinny or are they just trying to seek some love? Does the answer to this question change how you would respond to this situation?


Assuming that the kitchen is configured in a way that would allow him to actually wash the bowl, nothing wrong with it.

A 5 year old may not get the dish perfectly clean, to my standards, but it would likely be quite usable. Then he can make the decision: (I) wash the bowl; (ii) use one of the clean bowls offered to him; or (iii) choose a breakfast that doesn't require a bowl.

I sympathize with the fact that "acts of service" is his love language, but that doesn't mean that you always have to do things for him. Give him lots of praise for being such a big boy helper.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 12:17 pm
nchr wrote:
I do have a child or two who need to feel in charge, but I understand what you and Zehava are saying. I'm not not offering a choice so I can feel powerful or be in charge. It's more rooted in Yiddishkeit and also my fear of it creating more drama so to speak.


Sometimes offering a limited choice can mitigate the drama.

For example - parent says this is the cereal you are getting, next. Child might have a meltdown (drama).

Or parent says - you can have this bowl or wash another one. Child chooses to was another one. No drama.

I don't see any contradiction to yiddishkeit here.
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nchr




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 12:24 pm
Chayalle wrote:
Sometimes offering a limited choice can mitigate the drama.

For example - parent says this is the cereal you are getting, next. Child might have a meltdown (drama).

Or parent says - you can have this bowl or wash another one. Child chooses to was another one. No drama.

I don't see any contradiction to yiddishkeit here.


Giving a child a choice is frowned upon in the yiddishkeit I was raised with. I'm still torn about it and don't have an opinion. I see how choices could strengthen someone's frumkeit/erhlichkeit, but also how they could weaken it so I'm not focusing on that now.

Drama wise, a child who knows choices are an option will have opinions that parents need to deal with. Obviously problematic for someone who has a hard time with this. Not ideal, like Zehava said, but can be dealt with at a later time.
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 1:20 pm
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
Going off on tangent here, OP, hope it's ok-
Do I need to read the book "the 5 love languages" or is just knowing them enough?


Take the online quiz... It may surprised you.

https://www.5lovelanguages.com/quizzes/

It has for couple, singles, kids. Etc.
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amother




Chartreuse
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 1:48 pm
nchr wrote:
Giving a child a choice is frowned upon in the yiddishkeit I was raised with. I'm still torn about it and don't have an opinion. I see how choices could strengthen someone's frumkeit/erhlichkeit, but also how they could weaken it so I'm not focusing on that now.

Drama wise, a child who knows choices are an option will have opinions that parents need to deal with. Obviously problematic for someone who has a hard time with this. Not ideal, like Zehava said, but can be dealt with at a later time.


How is it frowned upon in yiddishkeit? Is there a source for this?
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imasinger




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 2:57 pm
Chayalle wrote:
nope. I meant something else entirely. Brat originally implied mamzerus. Which is why I think it's so horrible to randomly call children by that name.

But truth is, it wouldn't be nice to be so derogatory to the child even in that case.


I just looked it up, and it seems there's not consensus on where the word meaning originated. In Old French, a brachet was a mother dog, and in Irish, a bratt was a cloak or [rough] outer garment.

In any case, it's derogatory, and not helpful in child rearing. There are better strategies to handle whining than to call a kid names.

To amother who asked about the Five Love Languages book, it's worth reading anyway, and it's an easy read.
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amother




Ginger
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 3:16 pm
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
How is it frowned upon in yiddishkeit? Is there a source for this?

I agree with this, choices are good in yiddishkeit, chanoch lnaar alpi darco everyone needs to find own path within Torah, based on their unique talents.
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amother




Brunette
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 4:09 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
Interesting, nice catch! It's amazing how subconsciously these things run. I have a hippie friend who did a social experiment. When his girlfriend had a baby, they gave the baby a gender neutral name, and dressed the baby in neutral colors.

For the first 6 months they didn't tell anyone except immediate family what the gender of the baby was. Random strangers freaked out! They were very upset that they didn't know if they could say the baby was handsome or beautiful - like it matters to a 6 month old baby. Rolling Eyes (After 6 months they dropped the experiment and let the child grow up perfectly normal in every way, and he's just fine now.)

Anyway, back on topic. OP, you need to have all the same color plates and bowls. That way there will be no "favorite" bowl, sippy cup, or whatever. It's all a bunch of nonsense, makes more work for you, leads to tantrums, jealousy, and possessiveness. Nothing good can come of it.

If you want sanity, ditch the "special" stuff, and get some nice unbreakable melamine in a pretty pattern.


I disagree. It's so much more fun to eat on a plate that has a fun design or your favorite color. And having to wash it if you want a specific plate is a perfect chance to learn problem solving.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 4:31 pm
Just to address the new mom part:
When I had DC3, it was before Pesach. DH was in Kollel and around a lot until after Pesach.

On the first day DH went back to yeshiva, I got up and made the kids toast. One of them asked for butter and I started to cry.

(And since I'm sure someone will ask, I didn't have any thoughts at the time that I might have PPD. I'm not sure it was even 'a thing' back in the day.)
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Tof Umachol




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Feb 24 2021, 12:39 am
I know this isn't really relevant to your question, but this reminded me of how much my son loved to wash dishes! I have this vision of him, about two and a half, standing on a chair at the sink, wearing an apron, and gleefully rinsing plastic plates, cups and bowls (at that age he didn't necessarily get them clean, but he had so much fun).
Said son is now a father himself, so this really took me back in time.
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