A question about the Brochos in the morning

iyar

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 5:35 pm

You're not supposed to say "Shelo osani isha". Men say that. They thank Hashem for not making them a woman. ("Isha" is a woman.) Hashem made you a woman so you say "She'asani Kirtzono" - Hashem made you according to His will. ("Ratzon" is will or desire.) There are a lot of explanations of both brachos. I'll leave that to all the other imas.

zaq

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 5:39 pm

What do you mean by meaning? The standard apologetic answer is that men are grateful that they have more mitzvot, and women are grateful for...hmm...G-d's doing as He saw fit? The standard apologetics also say "see, women are on a higher level, they don't thank Hashem for doing something that's good for them, they accept His will simply because it's His will."

Right. I'm not buying it, either.

You should know that there is precedent for a different, less elitist nusach, I.e. sheasani yisrael, sheasani ben chorin, sheasani kirtzono. It is the nusach adopted by Conservative Judaism, but they didn't create it yesh me'ayin. There is precendent for these brachot, though there is also argument that once one says "sheasani Yisrael," the others are something of a bracha levatalah.

If that is the case, then why do women say "sheloa asani aved" and "shelo asani [gentile]"? Methinks they're also somewhat redundant, seeing how sheasani kir'tzono pretty much covers all the bases.

amother

Blush

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 5:45 pm

zaq wrote:

Interesting point. In the nusach I follow (nusach ari) as I was taught, women only say shelo asani aved and shelo asani g-y...and do not say sheasani kirtzono (or obviously not shelo asani isha either). It's not really assur to say sheasani kirtzono, but I was taught it's not strictly in our nusach and is slightly spiritually "chutzpahdik".

Frumme

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 5:49 pm

iyar wrote:

Some women are taught to say shelo asani isha, actually, because it's considered a "part" of brachos (this is how my mother was taught...). Others are taught to simply skip it, but I don't like that answer since I feel like I'm missing out on a bracha.

Anyway, morning brachos are somewhat very special to me, so I chose to start saying "sheasani kirtzono" because I feel like it's the best out of all three options and makes the most sense to me. I think the Shulchan Aruch says women should say "sheasani kirtzono." The 7th Lubavitcher Rebbe said one should only say "sheasani kirtzono" if your family had a custom to do so.

I know some people won't like my answer ("you can't just start doing xyz because it 'feels' better to do it") but, there is a basis in halacha to do it that way, so....

iyar

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 6:01 pm

zaq wrote:

They're not redundant.
The first thing we thank Hashem for is that we're awake and alive and we can do mitzvos.
Shelo asani [gentile] (I see imamother doesn't allow the word) is to thank Hashem that I'm a Jew. A non-Jew only has seven mitzvos and is excluded from the vast majority of ours.
Shelo asani aved thanks Hashem that the person is not an eved knaani who lived among Jews but was not obligated to do most of the mitzvos.
Next a man says shelo asani isha because a woman is obligated in fewer mitzvos than a man. Because a woman still has the elevated status and neshama of a Jew she says she'asani kirtzono.
AFAIK there is no corresponding bracha to the first two, the people mentioned in those brachos have no bracha to replace what a Jewish person says.

*I like your use of the word elitist zaq. I'm curious when you say "atah bechartanu mikol ha'amim" what you have in mind.

zaq

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 6:07 pm

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

Chutzpadik? How so? To my mind, it's superior to any of the others, including she'asani Yisrael and she'asani ben chorin, because it is the ultimate acceptance of G-d's will. Not--Whew, thank You for making me something I like (which is nicer than thank you for not making me something I don't like)----but thank You for doing as You saw fit. However, coming as it does after the shelo asani's, and in parallel with shelo asani ishah, it comes off as rather grudging.

zaq

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 6:11 pm

iyar wrote:

*I like your use of the word elitist zaq. I'm curious when you say "atah bechartanu mikol ha'amim" what you have in mind.

It's absolutely elitist. Our whole religion is elitist. Probably all religions are to a greater or lesser extent, because all religions believe that they possess the ultimate truth. Some religions accept that other religions may possess portions of truth, but all religions believe that theirs is the chief truth.

iyar

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 6:28 pm

Do you believe that your religion is true?
Do you believe that "atah brchartanu" is a statement of fact or a declaration of elitism?

(In case you'll want to turn it around and ask me what I think - I absolutely believe it is a statement of fact. It's a passuk in the Torah- Shemos 19:5, and others in Bereishis and Devarim. We belioeve there is a hierarchy in creation with each group created on a different level for a different purpose.)

amother

Blush

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 6:33 pm

zaq wrote:

NOTE: I'm not calling any person chutzpadik (or otherwise judging) if they say this brochah.

So, the idea of the negatively worded brochas (not this, not that) is that one isn't this or that and it affords the possibility that, by virtue of doing all the mitzvos one can, that they could achieve being a free person, being a jew, being a man, but the blessings are not "for making me a free person" "for making me a jew" or "for making me a man" (obviously the last being for men).

To assert one has inherently reached the level of what Hashem Wills is possibly not having the appropriate humility as a human.

Again, that is what I learned about why I was taught to not say "sheasani kirtzono".