Store selling expired goods.

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

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amother

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 10:41 am

I wasn't sure which forum to post this in but here goes...

This Purim, I received three ready made michloach manot from a kosher grocery store in my city. I started eating a pack of chips from one of the MM and it tasted off so I looked for the use by date and couldn't find it. In a MM one of my children received at school, there was the same brand of chips in a different flavour and I saw where the date was stamped. On closer inspection, it became clear that the date had been removed from the first pack I opened, there was a black smudge on the pack.

I inspected the other items in the MM and found among other things a pastry that expired the week before Purim, a chocolate bar with no expiry date on and another chocolate bar where the date had clearly been cut off with scissors.

This is not the first time I have seem something like this at this store. A while ago, there was an almost full box of stock cubes on the shelf with only about 2 weeks left on the use by date. I didn't buy them as I knew I wouldn't use them in time. The next time I visited the store, I saw what was presumably the same box but with all the use by dates erased.

The issue with the MM seems more sneaky because the bags were sealed and it would have been impossible to see the expiry dates even if they were still there. The owner had obviously packed up all of these expired items knowing that the purchaser would not be able to check the dates and would probably never find out since they would anyway be giving the MM to someone else.

I guess my question is, from a halachic perspecive and from a personal perspective, what can be done. I understand it is assur to inform on a fellow Jew. I also imagine (and hope) there are halachic problems with what is being done. This shop is the family's parnassa. On the other hand, people who aren't as careful with checking the use by dates might be buying the goods and either disposing of it when they realise it doesn't taste OK (thus wasting their money) or serving it up to either themselves or other, potentially making them sick.

My LOR is a close friend of the shop owner. I am friendly with his wife.

amother

Ecru

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 10:53 am

Don't patronize the store.
Don't get involved in other people's purchases even if you were the recipient of the MM.

Frumme

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 10:55 am

No answers, but expiration dates and production codes have always been difficult to decipher on many Frum products. Things like Kedem grape juice and Gefen tuna have codes that are only decipherable if you know the "language." I wouldn't be surprised if frum stores had similar practices to confuse consumers, unfortunately.

watergirl

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 11:12 am

This is a problem in general with heimish goods this time of the year because production stops until after pesach.

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 11:36 am

Most food is fine even for a while after the expiration date. In the city I used to live in, there was a discount grocery specifically for (recently) expired goods, with great bargains.

OTOH, I once bought Osem croutons from Walmart, and they tasted awful. Turns out that they had expired YEARS before!

amother

Firebrick

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 11:39 am

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

This. And you’re talking about “Use by” dates, which are not expiration dates. I don’t know if camouflaging those dates is illegal, but it’s certainly legal to sell them after those dates

amother

Magenta

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 11:47 am

My husband was once in the office of a local grocery and he watched the employees rubbing off expiration dates from certain products.

And it's a big problem that a lot of frum products don't have expiration dates. They only have a code which us regular people can't decipher. And then you buy the product and it tastes stale or off. Very upsetting.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 11:49 am

The problem here is that it seems like the store owner intentionally tried to hide the dates and sell them off. I would be very disgusted, from a yashrus pov.
If you are friendly with the owner, I would definitely say something to him. Without accusing, just pointing it out. If I received the basket from someone else, he wouldn't exactly be able to refund me the money, but I would have made my point.
Last year, a brand new grocery opened in my neighborhood close to Purim. He was selling a certain type of popular nosh for very cheap. He had a ton of them and seems like half the town bought it out, because we got a ton in the shalach manos. They were all bad.
I was dlz that he got a bad shipment for cheap and had no idea that it was not edible. In this case, OP seems sure that it was deliberate.
.

Notsobusy

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 12:00 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

This. And you’re talking about “Use by” dates, which are not expiration dates. I don’t know if camouflaging those dates is illegal, but it’s certainly legal to sell them after those dates

It's legal to sell after a use by date. But if I see a bag of cookies with a use by date of a year ago, I'm not buying it!

amother

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 3:43 pm

Thanks for the replies. I have to say I am surprised at some of the responses here!
Perhaps it would have been pertinent to mention that where I live, it IS illegal to sell out of date products.

Frumme wrote:

That's not the situation with the products in question here. This particular brand of chips prints the expiry date clearly in the top right hand corner on the front of the pack. I received a different flavour of these chips in another MM, but the packs from this store all had the date erased. On one pack it was very obvious as some smudged black ink remained. On another product, the expiry date had clearly been cut off with scissors.

amother wrote:

Most food is fine even for a while after the expiration date. In the city used to live in, there was a discount grocery specifically for (recently) expired goods, with great bargains.

The difference here is that presumably the date is still displayed and the customer can decide whether they're happy to purchase the item. In the case I am referring to, the shop owner is deliberately deceiving the customers. Even more so at Purim where the goods are being sold as part of a pack (at an inflated price) where the individual items can't be inspected by the customer (and honestly, most customers would not think to check the date the expiry date before purchasing. I only checked when the chips tasted off.

amother wrote:

you’re talking about “Use by” dates, which are not expiration dates

I know best before dates are different but I thought use by and expiry dates are the same.

BadTichelDay

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 4:19 pm

To me, it doesn't feel right and it is not honest. Removing the dates and selling things at their normal or even at a higher price for Purim has an element of cheating. It is willfully concealing from customers that the items are most likely of inferior quality.
I'm a bit astonished that posters here seemingly don't find it all that bad.

In Israel, I think this would be illegal.
In any event, I would make an effort to avoid buying in such a shop in the future and if unavoidable, at least check every item carefully. Okay, in the case of received mm that obviously doesn't help.
I would probably consult with our rav if something should or could be done about it.

amother

Black

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 4:28 pm

BadTichelDay wrote:

Many items legally need a best by date that is earlier than the products shelf life so stores know that the item should still be of fine quality especially only 2 weeks after expiring.
That being said covering up the date is wrong.

amother

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 5:25 pm

BadTichelDay wrote:

Okay, in the case of received mm that obviously doesn't help.
I would probably consult with our rav if something should or could be done about it.

I'm not looking help over the MM which were gratefully received and the thought appreciated, but I feel bad that people are spending money on this stuff. It's not even just the MM, as I noticed before some stock cubes which had clearly had the use by date removed. I'm sure the chips were not just a few weeks out of date, people could potentially be buying things that are dangerous to consume.

bargainlover

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 5:44 pm

Frumme wrote:

Kedem grape juice has a very clear expiration date on the cover.

Radish

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 7:13 pm

Honestly, just bring it back to the store and show it to them. At least get a refund. Then shop elsewhere

ChutzPAh

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 7:26 pm

I’d be questioning the kashrus in this store too. If the owner is knowingly taking off expiration dates so he can sell old products and not lose money, who knows what other shady things are going on there. Do they sell chicken or meat? Their own packages of candy in the clear boxes that are made out of wholesale bulk products? You should get a rav involved.

amother

Black

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 7:38 pm

bargainlover wrote:

Kedem grape juice has a very clear expiration date on the cover.

Kedem makes 2 runs a year.
When it gets close to Pesach and Sukkos the old shipment is 6 months old and starts going bad.
Keep an eye, and don't overstock if it takes you 6 months to use up your supply.

Frumme

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 7:42 pm

bargainlover wrote:

Kedem grape juice has a very clear expiration date on the cover.

It's possible it's changed, but I remember even 5 years ago this was not the case. It used to just be a code in black on the side of the bottle. It may differ between the plastic and glass bottles

Sprinkles1

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 7:55 pm

Quote:

Perhaps it would have been pertinent to mention that where I live, it IS illegal to sell out of date products.

I imagine there is a difference between selling perishable items (dairy...) past the date, and selling chips or chocolate, no?

amother

Purple

Sun, Feb 28 2021, 7:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm looking help over the MM which were gratefully received and the thought appreciated, but I feel bad that people are spending money on this stuff. It's not even just the MM, as I noticed before some stock cubes which had clearly had the use by date removed. I'm sure the chips were not just a few weeks out of date, people could potentially be buying things that are dangerous to consume.

This does not excuse their fraud, but the expiration date is actually a remarkably poor predictor of whether a food item is safe.

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