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My daughter didn’t get into seminary
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 12:54 am
amother [ Violet ] wrote:
I'm not in a community where seminary is a must but my oh my, doesn't anyone see anything wrong with this? Putting young girls through something like this?

I don't see anything wrong with someone not getting into seminary (or college, or in not finding a job right away -- it happens), although it seems weird that a student with decent grades should be rejected from every institution to which she applied. I guess I don't understand what criteria are used in the selection process.
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amother




Burgundy
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 1:11 am
On the practical side - get her teacher and her principal to advocate for her. They should be doing this already, but if not, nudge.

On the emotional side - be sympathetic. This stinks. Later, you'll have time for all the platitudes, but give her time to just wallow.

Much of the admissions process is about numbers. Seminaries don't want too many girls from the same school/neighborhood etc. So sometimes perfectly wonderful girls don't get in.

Chances are she'll get in somewhere, once girls with multiple admissions have made their choices. Hang in there.
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amother




Tangerine
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 2:12 am
Mint Amother, AWESOME post!
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amother




Mint
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 5:31 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:


Hatzlacha OP!! It must be so hard for her. I disagree with the posters who think it’s not a big deal to get this kind of rejection and in a few days she’ll get over it since it does feel like they’re rejecting YOU and that really does hurt. I’m sorry your daughter and others are going through this; Hashem has a master plan but it’s so hard sometimes.


To clarify: what I said was that in the bigger scheme of life, it is not a big deal. To OPs daughter, it FEELS like the end of the world. She is all of 17- 18...this is where she is at.
She wants to crawl under a rock and not come out until she is in a seminary. I am not minimizing her pain.
But....The way we feel about things often have no bearing on reality.
Like when my 3 year old is devastated that his toy car broke. I empathize with him because his pain is REAL. He Is AS upset as an adult would be if his car was totalled. But we, the adults could know that his toy breaking is really just a normal part of childhood and will not effect his life, and is, in the bigger scheme of things, nothing. But we sympathize with the child because this is his pain, this is where he is at.

I felt it important to tell OP at this time because unfortunately sometimes when our child gets rejected (from a school, seminary, shidduch etc.) Some parents tend to take it personally and they are even more bitter and angry than their child. This places an additional burden on the child.

So I repeat, it is not a big deal in the bigger scheme of life, though it feels like that to her right now.
Those of us who are a few years beyond seminary can testify that one week, or even two weeks of feeling rejection is small potatoes compared to real life. This is not to trivialize the girl's pain, which is 100 percent real.
But just to give OP a long term perspective...this is good for her. Everyone gets their share of rejection and disappointment. People suffer rejection in shidduchim, lose their livelihood, suffer miscarriage and loss, r"l. How we deal with them, and whether or not they break us has much to do with how resilient we are. And so that is why I am happy for OP's daughter to have this opportunity to experience rejection, that in the end will not even matter once she gets into seminary. Hashem loves her!

Hold her hand. Let her know this is not about her. But you be the mother that is a bulwark of strength and emuna for her. She will gain so much from your example.
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 7:34 am
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
I wish I would have known how hyped-up and ridiculous the pressure to go to seminary is when I got rejecteds from seminary 20 years ago.

I cried and cried till I got in. Then I went, and I said, "This is what I cried over?!"

Seminary is a scam. You can listen to shiurim and go to work/college a year early. Seminary wastes money, puts unnecessary pressure on parents and girls, and sets up girls with unbelievably unrealistic expectations about life.

Most young women do not NEED to go to seminary. Unfortunately, we often confuse wants with needs.

If all the girls who didn't get into seminary would accept their results and find other things to do next year, the stigma of rejection would be greatly lessened. Girls who only apply to seminary out of peer pressure will see that it's not necessary to go. The world will be a better place.


I COMPLETELY agree.
In the moment we think its everything, and years later, looking from an objective lense....sooooo not neceasary. What a hype.

I think it would be smart to start making not going to seminary one of the verbalized options on the table...it is so much more practical, and would also lessen the pain of rejection by so much
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amother




Ginger
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 7:52 am
amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:
I COMPLETELY agree.
In the moment we think its everything, and years later, looking from an objective lense....sooooo not neceasary. What a hype.

I think it would be smart to start making not going to seminary one of the verbalized options on the table...it is so much more practical, and would also lessen the pain of rejection by so much


And I completely disagree. For every person that thinks and feels this way, there are many that think the opposite.

Seminary was the most amazing year of my life. I had a very difficult childhood and experienced disappointment very frequently. My seminary rejections really put me over the edge. It wasn't a "good thing" that happened to me. I would have been perfectly well-equipped for life to deal with things not going my way without being rejected. It was unfortunate and it was what Hashem wanted but that doesn't make it objectively a good thing.

Every single other girl got accepted and I was the only one who didn't. As a 17 year old I couldn't help but think "what is wrong with me?!". BH, Hashem sent me to an amazing place and I am so, so thankful it worked out so well.

Please be kind to your daughters if they get rejections. Tell them all the wonderful things about them. Build up their self-esteem. Make sure they know you think they are amazing and have many positive characteristics and middos. Tell them that while it is very, very hard to be in this situation, Hashem has a plan for them. And show them you care by calling their seminary adviser and getting them to help you. And encourage your daughter to do the same- talk to her seminary adviser and be open minded to look into other options. A year in EY is not comparable to anything in the world imo.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 7:58 am
amother [ Ginger ] wrote:
I didn't get in anywhere either when I applied. I was GO head, almost straight A's, well-liked by teachers and friends.... It was very heartbreaking for me quite honestly. It made feel all my hard work was for nothing and that I was pretty much worthless. Please validate her feelings as much as you can because it is really tough. And seminary decisions are not really about how "great" of a girl one is. They make decisions on many other factors we don't necessarily know about or agree with.

Also work with her school, mechanenes, seminary person to brainstorm and be creative to come up with other options. I did end up getting into a wonderful seminary that was not my first choice (at all) and I had a really wonderful year.

This sounds very much like me. But my mother just gave up and didn’t try to push me in. I was really broken then. But HaShem has a master plan and we don’t see it until we look back. I ended up getting engaged and married the year that would have been my seminary year. I ended up in Bais Yaakov Intensive and got engaged towards the end of the year. Had I been abroad my mother would have never considered shidduchim yet for me. So it really was in my best interest that I got rejected from all the seminaries I applied to.
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 8:01 am
amother [ Ginger ] wrote:
And I completely disagree. For every person that thinks and feels this way, there are many that think the opposite.

Seminary was the most amazing year of my life. I had a very difficult childhood and experienced disappointment very frequently. My seminary rejections really put me over the edge. It wasn't a "good thing" that happened to me. I would have been perfectly well-equipped for life to deal with things not going my way without being rejected. It was unfortunate and it was what Hashem wanted but that doesn't make it objectively a good thing.

Every single other girl got accepted and I was the only one who didn't. As a 17 year old I couldn't help but think "what is wrong with me?!". BH, Hashem sent me to an amazing place and I am so, so thankful it worked out so well.

Please be kind to your daughters if they get rejections. Tell them all the wonderful things about them. Build up their self-esteem. Make sure they know you think they are amazing and have many positive characteristics and middos. Tell them that while it is very, very hard to be in this situation, Hashem has a plan for them. And show them you care by calling their seminary adviser and getting them to help you. And encourage your daughter to do the same- talk to her seminary adviser and be open minded to look into other options. A year is EY is not comparable to anything in the world imo.


I understand for some girls it is critical. You had a difficult childhood, and seminary was clearly what you needed. What many girls need, for whatever specific reason.
But not everyone needs it.
Some do.
Some DONT.
And to lump every single 12th grade girl into the same boat of "needing" to get accepted because she "needs" to go, is wrong.
Maybe OP's daughter does need it. And in that case im sorry she didnt get in...
But maybe OP's daughter doesnt truly need it? Maybe all this heartache is for something that 10 years from now she'll shrug her shoulders over?
Do you know how many many girls I know, recently, who came back from sem and told me it was "overrated"? In the past 2-3 years. A few went as far as to say they hated it, so happy to be back home. For these girls-what a waste! For these girls, if they had been crying and heartsick over being rejected-wouldnt you say theyre crying over nothing?

Thats why im saying we need to start verbalizing the option of not going. Im not saying cancel seminary all together of course, im just saying introduce the other option, of not everyone going.
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amother




Mistyrose
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 9:23 am
amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:
I COMPLETELY agree.
In the moment we think its everything, and years later, looking from an objective lense....sooooo not neceasary. What a hype.

I think it would be smart to start making not going to seminary one of the verbalized options on the table...it is so much more practical, and would also lessen the pain of rejection by so much

Deep down I think there is a percentage of girls who don't really want to go but feel pressured by societal expectations and assumptions that it is the next logical step.
I agree it should become an acceptable option not to.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 9:39 am
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
I wish I would have known how hyped-up and ridiculous the pressure to go to seminary is when I got rejecteds from seminary 20 years ago.

I cried and cried till I got in. Then I went, and I said, "This is what I cried over?!"

Seminary is a scam. You can listen to shiurim and go to work/college a year early. Seminary wastes money, puts unnecessary pressure on parents and girls, and sets up girls with unbelievably unrealistic expectations about life.

Most young women do not NEED to go to seminary. Unfortunately, we often confuse wants with needs.

If all the girls who didn't get into seminary would accept their results and find other things to do next year, the stigma of rejection would be greatly lessened. Girls who only apply to seminary out of peer pressure will see that it's not necessary to go. The world will be a better place.


But I didnt get a lollypop ...Moreh gave all the girls and didnt give me... Sad Sad
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amother




Mint
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 9:43 am
I think this should be a spinoff. Every year around this time, women come on here to argue both sides of the coin.
OP asked for chizzuk .
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 10:11 am
OP, when I didn't get into seminary (25+ years ago) one of my teachers gave me a bracha that I should never get another rejection in my life - shidduchim, etc....and you know, I was never "dumped" by a boy I went out with. So it was quite a bracha. I pass this bracha on to your DD now.

It really is a very tough feeling when your whole grade is going on and on about seminary and you didn't get in. Try to be there for your DD, talk to her, talk about possible alternative plans so she feels there's a future for her - this is what my mother A"H did and it helped. Talk to her school, principal, etc....and ask them to help. Look into whatever options there might be.

I got in on pending in the end, and I wouldn't trade the way I ended up getting in for anything. The experience really built me. And now, looking back, it's kind of funny how huge and important it was at the time. But it was that huge and important back then, so don't belittle that for her. Help her thru it.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 10:40 am
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
I wish I would have known how hyped-up and ridiculous the pressure to go to seminary is when I got rejecteds from seminary 20 years ago.

I cried and cried till I got in. Then I went, and I said, "This is what I cried over?!"

Seminary is a scam. You can listen to shiurim and go to work/college a year early. Seminary wastes money, puts unnecessary pressure on parents and girls, and sets up girls with unbelievably unrealistic expectations about life.

Most young women do not NEED to go to seminary. Unfortunately, we often confuse wants with needs.

If all the girls who didn't get into seminary would accept their results and find other things to do next year, the stigma of rejection would be greatly lessened. Girls who only apply to seminary out of peer pressure will see that it's not necessary to go. The world will be a better place.


OP didn't ask you to tell her that what her DD desperately wants isn't necessary.

Getting married isn't necessary either. You can have a long and happy life without a spouse. And without kids. But you wouldn't tell someone suffering infertility that the world would be a better place if people like her would just shut up and babysit for you, since you need a break, and you already have kids so you know its not all that its made out to be.

OP, I agree that she should speak to whomever helps with applications at her school. There may be places that aren't full, that she didn't consider. Or places that could be persuaded to reconsider.

Have her write a letter, stating that she is asking them to reconsider if they should have any openings. Make it personal to each seminary, discussing what she likes about them, and what she can bring to them. Things about her that don't come out when reviewing hundreds of applications.

Whatever happens, I wish your DD contentment and happiness.
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amother




Papaya
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 10:54 am
Op, the way it works is the teacher who is paid to figure it all out needs to get a move on it. Most likely she can get her into one of the places she applied to if she works quickly.
No time for letters etc.. there are many many slots up for grabs now from the girls who didn’t choose her seminary.
Any school that knows what they’re doing usually deals with this before the letters come out. In the very least, they call the parents right away and tell them that they’re working on it.
Really makes no sense to me that the school has not reached out to you. This is actually their job.
And for those who say seminary isn’t important, that’s not the issue here. Her daughter feels hurt. It’s painful. Rejecting is painful. I’m sure the op is in as much pain seeing her daughter being hurt.
Op, I would be sad and mad and hurt. Your daughter is amazing and they should grab her.
Very soon they will and it will all be behind you and they will see what a gem they got.
I see this over and over again.
Please be strong for your child but a mama bear to your daughters high school that they needed to get their act together yesterday
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bwaybabe85




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 11:28 am
I agree with those that said not going should be an acceptable option! I chose not to go, and our school's seminary advisor was horrified and said she hoped I wouldn't go off the derech. (Spoiler alert: I didn't go off the derech.) If people were to start college and careers earlier, they could save up money and we'd have less of the posts about people wanting to buy houses but not having enough money for a down payment...
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amother




Scarlet
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 11:40 am
OP - I am sorry you are your daughter are going through this. As others have said, I strongly encourage you to reach out to everyone you can in your daughter's school to help you. So much of the acceptance process unfortunately has to do with who each school's menaheles or seminary advisor pushes into each sem. If the advisor did not return your message, please call the principal and/or her mechaneches or any teacher in the school who your daughter feels close to, as that teacher can reach out to the seminary advisor as well to get things moving and find other options. This will work out in the end, but every day for your daughter that she is in limbo must be so hard for her, so the sooner the better.

I look forward to hearing back from you once she is accepted!
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little neshamala




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 11:40 am
bwaybabe85 wrote:
I agree with those that said not going should be an acceptable option! I chose not to go, and our school's seminary advisor was horrified and said she hoped I wouldn't go off the derech. (Spoiler alert: I didn't go off the derech.) If people were to start college and careers earlier, they could save up money and we'd have less of the posts about people wanting to buy houses but not having enough money for a down payment...


What a poor evaluation of our chinuch system she gave...after roughly 13 years of yeshiva education, she thought you'd have problems staying frum without that one priceless 14th year.
Rolling Eyes
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 11:43 am
amother [ Ginger ] wrote:
And I completely disagree. For every person that thinks and feels this way, there are many that think the opposite.

Seminary was the most amazing year of my life. I had a very difficult childhood and experienced disappointment very frequently. My seminary rejections really put me over the edge. It wasn't a "good thing" that happened to me. I would have been perfectly well-equipped for life to deal with things not going my way without being rejected. It was unfortunate and it was what Hashem wanted but that doesn't make it objectively a good thing.

Every single other girl got accepted and I was the only one who didn't. As a 17 year old I couldn't help but think "what is wrong with me?!". BH, Hashem sent me to an amazing place and I am so, so thankful it worked out so well.

Please be kind to your daughters if they get rejections. Tell them all the wonderful things about them. Build up their self-esteem. Make sure they know you think they are amazing and have many positive characteristics and middos. Tell them that while it is very, very hard to be in this situation, Hashem has a plan for them. And show them you care by calling their seminary adviser and getting them to help you. And encourage your daughter to do the same- talk to her seminary adviser and be open minded to look into other options. A year in EY is not comparable to anything in the world imo.


I agree with you. I like your post. I just want to say that while there is of course nothing like a year in EY if the only option is a chu"l seminary, there are some excellent options too.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 11:45 am
bwaybabe85 wrote:
I agree with those that said not going should be an acceptable option! I chose not to go, and our school's seminary advisor was horrified and said she hoped I wouldn't go off the derech. (Spoiler alert: I didn't go off the derech.) If people were to start college and careers earlier, they could save up money and we'd have less of the posts about people wanting to buy houses but not having enough money for a down payment...


Yes, there are other options. Including, as I mention, chu"l. Let's not conflate seminary with EY.
BUT I think OP needs to exhaust the conventional possibilities. This is what we're focused on. Plan B, which years down the road could obviously be the most amazing hashgacha pratis, comes later.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 03 2021, 11:55 am
amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

Do you know how many many girls I know, recently, who came back from sem and told me it was "overrated"? In the past 2-3 years. A few went as far as to say they hated it, so happy to be back home. For these girls-what a waste! For these girls, if they had been crying and heartsick over being rejected-wouldnt you say theyre crying over nothing?

Thats why im saying we need to start verbalizing the option of not going. Im not saying cancel seminary all together of course, im just saying introduce the other option, of not everyone going.


When my DD told me that she really wants to stay in the US for her sem year, I had a conversation with my SIL who lives in Israel (and has hosted plenty of her friends' and relatives' daughters who are in seminary) and she told me pretty much the same. She also told me the following: there are girls who are gong-ho about going and some of them end up loving it. There are girls who are pareve about going, and some of them end up liking it, and some stay exactly as they came. And there are girls who are pressured into going, and hate it. She told me she has hosted girls who told her if they could get a refund they'd be on the next plane home. But they don't want to disappoint their parents. They wish they had stayed locally for sem.

Both my DD's ended up staying in the US for their seminary year and had a really good year. Staying local is really cost effective too (the seminary in Lakewood they attended has the option of 36 college credits, and I got a nice tax break for that too) and can be a great option for a girl who is happy to stay closer to home.
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