Violent video games and Difficult Boys

bigsis144

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 4:47 pm

There’s a lot of nuance in the space between

“absolutely treif, will make them even more demanding and violent”

and

“a suboptimal outlet, but normal enough and giving in in this area may show them you can see things from their point of view”.

PLEASE don’t cite all the books and studies on how video games are poison, the army uses them to desensitize soldiers to violence, school shooters etc etc etc.

I am trying to start an empathetic, level-headed thread where people give their real-life experiences and advice for dealing with this area of conflict.

—
I am a woman, and I grew up in a house full of girls. I also grew up in a time when video games were less accessible and common in the average home. So what is “normal” for boys, and especially for boys nowadays, is something I worry about not being in touch with.

We have a filtered family computer in the living room (that I purchased when remote schooling became a necessity) to which I’ve downloaded some logic/puzzle games, car racing games, and the kids can watch pre-approved videos.

Over the last month or so, my 11 year old son has become more and more obsessed with playing “shooting games”. While I have blocked all child accounts from making purchases, the Microsoft store (unblockable) still shows listings of all available games. He hasn’t asked me for anything realistically graphic, but refuses to accept that I won’t let him play “cartoonish” games where one shoots stick figures in the head instead of realistic people.

He will not get off my back. He begs to “earn” them. He asks me to imagine that he’s “just shooting tomatoes out of a tomato launcher, and that’s the red that explodes when someone gets hit”. He says he’s bored with everything else, he wants “exciting games that require precision and skill” and that his classmates play things like Fortnite, etc., that waiting until he’s 18 and can buy it for himself is “so long I might as well be dead by then”... I can barely get a minute’s rest once he latches onto this topic. At bedtime he will go on and on and on about it, and I’m happy to stay and schmooze about another topic, but he just won’t stop.

My gut feeling is that this is unacceptable, and I’ve said as much to him. “A cheeseburger might look delicious, but you still can’t have it. I’m not getting you this game.”

Other than continuing to be the “mean parents”, how else do we approach this topic? Is this a hill that I should die on? Are there any other ways to look at this situation that I haven’t tried? How do I stay empathetic while being firm?

bigsis144

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 5:39 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

I played Wolfenstein 3D a bunch as a kid, which is an early first person shooting game, and the old Prince of Persia which included impalement on spikes and stabbing IIRC. I don't think it did me any harm. My older boy cousin played too, and he was a perfectly nice kid.

But some of the new stuff out there seems much more adult and sophisticated. To me it would depend on the level of realism, and also other stuff like profanity and adult content.

Right. I know a lot of well-adjusted adults who played Halo or Mass Effect or Call of Duty or whatever as kids.

I even play Dungeon and Dragons with my kids, which includes plenty of age-appropriate verbal descriptions of stabbing and slashing with weapons, etc.

But these games are not *necessary* for OOT yeshivish/RW MO kids, right? I’m not depriving him of something that all his friends have...

amother

Emerald

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 5:40 pm

I have a 13 yo ds.

A couple of years ago he also wanted fortnite. He had been happy with roblox and mine craft prior.
I wasn't so ok with it.

But dh read an article about the positives (it is played in teams, and requires collaboration etc). And I gave in.

I wasn't initially thrilled. But, since covid it has been a way for ds to play with his friends and that has been priceless.

I haven't noticed any increase in violence (but he is not a violent kid), decrease in empathy, or any sign that he thinks the shooting is real.

We set rules re only playing on line with kids he knows in real life and time limits (it's addictive if there are no limits)

tp3

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 5:42 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

Well, I snapped and told my son that chinuch is a matter that I bring to a Rav. If my son was willing to present his case to a Rav and convince him, I would go with what the Rav says.

I think this is very smart! I do this sometimes when my words are not being heard by my child.
My older boys were never into these shooting games but my younger ones think that guns and weaponry are the coolest thing ever. I haven't caved to violent shooting games but supposedly I'm the strictest parent ever. I'm keeping it that way, I don't want my kids desensitized.

bigsis144

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 5:42 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

The level of perseveration and obsession sounds like it could be ocd.

So far, none of the evaluations we’ve done or therapists he’s seen over the years for his intensity and rage have mentioned OCD, but I’m pretty sure if we get him evaluated again (last comprehensive testing was years ago) he’d have anxiety and/or depression.

Other background info: this is a boy who hates sports and doesn’t ever want to get together with friends outside of school. He rarely reads books for fun, though he is incredibly intelligent. He doesn’t want to do craft or baking projects or play with LEGO, and he needs to be kept away from his younger siblings because it gets rough quickly.

amother

Emerald

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 5:53 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

Would be be interested in something a little different on line, like learning Autocad (sketchup), or if you budget allows, 3d printing?

bigsis144

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 6:03 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Would be be interested in something a little different on line, like learning Autocad (sketchup), or if you budget allows, 3d printing?

No, those are “too much work”. His school has Scratch accounts for the kids to do basic coding, but he’s not interested. Creative mode in Minecraft is “a waste of time” (he’d rather play competitive/interactive games).

I remember teaching myself html and basic video editing as a teenager - not all “screen time” is equal, and if I felt he was doing something creative/productive, I’d be fine with it!

amother

Emerald

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 6:07 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

What about coding a shooting game? My ds took a course in that.

bigsis144

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 6:10 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

What about something intermediate, like a game where you shoot down enemy aircraft, clay saucers, or other vehicles or objects instead of people who look like people? I also used to love Nintendo's Duck Hunt. And also hunting in Oregon Trail. The animals were not very real looking.

We don’t own an Xbox or Nintendo Switch, but would that investment be worth it?

So far, it seems all PC games have endless ads or they nickel-and-dime you with loot boxes and “optional” upgrades that slowly bloat the game.

I miss the days when I was a kid and you bought a CD of a game and whatever was on the CD was what you got. Nothing was “locked” away until you paid extra for it, and there were no external ads... (I’m talking about Oregon Trail or Detective Barbie or Zoombinis or Carmen Sandiego... I never played actual video games, not even Super Mario...)

I dunno, I’ve never played things like Legend of Zelda or Kingdom Hearts or Portal, but are those more in the realm of what I’d be looking for? I know just enough to know that I know nothing about video games...

amother

Sienna

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 6:50 pm

BigSis, please don't give in. Your idea of going to a Rav with him was awesome!! From your posts in the ADHD threads, I feel like I know you and your kids. For some kids, a violent video game might make no impact. But not on a child with an ADHD brain. The very fact your son is so bored of the other games, and stuck on badgering you without letting up, shows that his ADHD brain is begging for an addictive, highly sensationalist experience! And you and I (I'm your fellow ADHD mom here) both know that such a brain flooded with that stimuli will become consumed by it, blocking out the less stimulating things he needs to absorb (like school), and then it won't be enough, and he'll be on to the next, more sensory overloading experience to make him feel stimulated and alive. ADHD stinks, but do not give in to violent video games. It's the ADHD kids that end up being the most influenced by that sort of stuff. It's tough, but us ADHD moms need to stick together, we can do it!

amother

Sienna

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 6:55 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

Dungeons and dragons is completely different, it is theoretical and uses a totally different part of the brain. Just not the same. If your son had a group to play D and D with, it would be excellent for bonding and imagination.

bigsis144

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 6:57 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

He doesn’t want to teach any of his real-life friends (maybe he’s scared of looking “nerdy”? I think D&D is super cool, personally, and I play 2-3 hours a week with my kids! Being the Dungeon Master is more work outside the game and I can’t do more than I already am...) and I’m wary of online groups with strangers.

I would love to find frum boys for him to zoom game with!

Last edited by bigsis144 on Thu, Mar 04 2021, 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

cbsp

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 6:58 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

Can you find anything here

https://www.abandonwaredos.com.....s.php

that works for the both of you?

amother

Sienna

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 7:01 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

Hmm...I might consider setting something up between our sons of similar age. I like the idea of my son playing a game that is non electronic with a zoom friend. Let me think about it, and I'll PM you.