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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 6:26 pm

This is just a vent. But I need to get it out there, even into cyber space. Basically, I never fit in. Anywhere. I grew up in a traditional home, going to a modern school, in an ultro-orthodox community. In school I actually became more religious, and although I had been good at making friends there, there's something to be said about friends you are more alike with. Ironically, in the neighborhood I was basically the [gentile], and in school I was a frummie. I got into a more hashkafically similar sem, but I was looked down upon and judged for my background, by peers and sadly staff. Ironically I am more relig then some girls who I graduated with because they ended up going on a different path. Then I went to a private college earned my masters, and was dating in the shidduch system. But I realized how quickly that would fall apart because in that system, your parents and background matter more. So I was set up with, best case scenario, much less religious boys, especially when it matched the cultural background. But basically it was off base. Bh I met my husband through a mutual friend. But he is in a similar boat. Far more religious than his background and mostly a baal teshuva. He is very commited to torah and bh dedicated to being koveah itim and asking shailos. But he wasnt allowed to go to post hs yeshiva. Went to very modern schools as well, and found his way to more yeshivish hashkafa through many many online shiurim and programs. We have the shul rav and rabbeim to ask shailos as they come up. But no 1 rav. We live were we do for work. We have no yichus. Were off the radar. Bh we have two kids, and now one is ready for school. We cant even fill out parts of the application. The child's great grandparents?! Forget it- no affiliation to yiddishkite. Husbands last yeshivah/kollel? Family rav? We didnt grow up like that. We would love to have one. Refrences to vouch for our yiddishkite? Ok some friends but they dont exactly have yichus either. But we are genuinely frum, torah loving, ovdei hashem. Our child is very gifted bh and already so enthusiastic about yehadus and we just want to give him the right environment. But we probably cant even get him into the schools wed think would benefit him that are in line with our hashkafa. Because we don't matter enough. It makes me sad. I know what its like to never fit in. I wanted it for my past self. I want it for my son. But now Im sitting here thinking, I wonder if his children will even be able to get in. His grandparents are no-namers. When will we matter.
Thanks for listening.

amother

Olive

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 6:32 pm

Please move to a community like Baltimore. If you are truly erlich, you will be most respected,and your children will attend the same schools as the children of the Rabbanim and maggidei shiur. Try to make the move soon, when your children are little and can adjust and learn the culture quickly. Do it for them and for yourselves! No reason to spend the rest of your life feeling this way, and transferring those feelings to the next generation...

amother

Pearl

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 6:33 pm

Family rav you put the Rav of the shul u go to Shabbos morning. Great grandparents? Never seen that on any application in the yeshivish world in NY. Just write their names, thats it. Weird question. Last yeshiva? Wherever he was last. No one should care about this to take a child into Kindergarten.

Maybe from the people around you , you are different but I know for a fact there is tons of people like you.

amother

Peach

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 6:35 pm

There are many people in your boat. Baalei teshuva who’s father isn’t even Jewish and gerim. You make your own yichus. Jews have been doing that since Avraham. I know it’s hard, but you can’t change the reality so you have to know you aren’t alone and you can handle it.

Conversely I have a good friend who’s father is a chashuv person and she grew up sxally abused by various relatives. She’d throw away her yichus in a second. Paper only goes so far. She’s far more damaged than the benefit her fathers name gives her in school applications.

From a geyoris in Lakewood.

amother

Turquoise

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 6:38 pm

I'm sorry. It sounds like you are feeling very overwhelmed and unwelcome.

OP, I'm daughter of BTs who never had a yeshiva education.
My grandparents and great-grandparents are no-namers.

My parents tried to put us in schools where we would grow as a family in ruchniyus. They never settled for the level they were on. Never wanted mediocre. Always wanted to become bigger, greater, better people.
I went to regular BY schools and camps. I went to Hadar for seminary.
I can quote maamarei chazal just as well as anyone. Wink

I'm a teacher of wonderful impressionable young bnos yisrael.

It's okay to forge your own way in life. You don't need yichus. Most people do not have.
Feel proud of who you are, of who you are becoming!

I think that moving forward, the thing I would change is to try to fulfill asei lecha rav. It is important to have a rav as a halachic advisor and sounding board as life grows ever more complex.

amother

Cyan

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 6:43 pm

As soon as I saw your question, I'm thinking, your probably live in Lakewood or NY. You need to move to a nice out of town community. Baltimore, Cleveland, North Miami Beach. Noone cares about yichus where I live. You are your own person.
And also never saw such questions on an application either. Except for shul rav, everyone should have one.

amother

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 6:46 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

So my husband does have a relationship w our shul rav but that's a different question. They specifically ask for shul rav, then my husbands morah derech, family rav or rav he is still has a relationship with from yeshiva.

Theres one in my hand right now, asking about the grandparents and great grandparents!!! Its from NY btw. I thought it was absurd too. I would hope no one would care about this, but they all seem too. My husband is being a champ about it, but I can tell it hurts him too. Hashem runs the world, and iyh my son will end up where he's meant to. I know that. But my emotions are overwhelming me right now.

amother

Turquoise

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 6:48 pm

You can move oot where you won't need to be asked all that, and will be accepted for Who you are.

Our oot school does ask for grandparents' info, because of course they want to fundraise from them!!

amother

Lime

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 6:55 pm

I think they do it for fundraising. I don't know if this helps but it's hurtful for other people too. I have nothing to do with my family. They are abusive and I had to cut contact. I don't want people to have their information. But I can't exactly leave it out without looking like I have issues. We just put down the rav of the shul my husband davens in on shabbos.

octopus

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 6:56 pm

The schools are shrinking in brooklyn. I doubt it's brooklyn. The schools here are chalishing for enrollment.

amother

Pearl

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:10 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Well just put your shul Rav twice. He can be both. No biggie. For many, it is. The great grandparents is probably to play jewish geography to aulmni ggchildren so they don't accidentally give them a no or not to miss an opportunity to score a talmud of yichus ( meaning torah or cash or connections). It is not to omit others, but to score those. It is not a basis for rejection. Unless you are in the Syrian community, then it is to check your yichus that you are part of that community without anything problematic in that derech.

And don't worry there are plenty "nobody"'s ffb, yeshivish fb, in NY. You are in good company.

We really are only a sum total of our own actions in life. We cannot rest on the laurels of our ancestors. We forge our own paths and it is what we make it.

For example, my friends family who has the parchment showing their direct paternal line to Dovid Hamelech, been treated like garbage by the yeshiva this year. Another friend with direct line to the baal shem tov, same story. Some with Famous Rabbanim only 3-4-5 gen back, but not the type to constantly tell it to everyone same nobody's. But that is just being a nobody for people to use & social climb. I think it is very preferable to another friend of mine who never could go anywhere or talk to anyone without them asking about her grandfather. We became great friends probably because as a child I did not know who her grandfather was and someone was interested in her as her own person for a change.

Your choices are more impressive than all the yichus one can be born to.

amother

Yellow

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:15 pm

I think they ask for the grandparents names for fundraising purposes. Most people do not have famous grandparents so you really don't have to worry. I live in Lakewood.

One enthusiastic reference can go a long way, so if your Rav will put in a good word for you I think that's more than enough.

Please don't think that you're less than. You sound like a wonderful family and please be proud of who you are. (Like another amother said, there are those with yichus who are no great shakes so there's that as well)

amother

Teal

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:21 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I have "big names" in my family which would most likely get my kids accepted everywhere, but I would never enrol my kids in any school who asks for that kind of information. Why would anyone want to put their kids into that kind of environment? What does that teach our kids? That human beings can be "worth" more or less than other human beings? Because of where they come from? If every parent agreed to fill out these forms with "Avraham and Sara" as a response to any "names of great grandparents", we would eradicate this elitism. It's ugly and it needs to stop!

PeanutMama

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:22 pm

I am soon going to be in the same boat. My husband and I chose yidishkeit, and live a chasidish life.
I have the same feelings too. I think the whole who were your great grandparents who was your rabbi which Yeshiva did you go to type of stuff is silly and irrelevant. I do not know why it matters so much. Why can’t the schools just focus on the parents wants and needs?
Parents just want their kids to go to a frum school and raise frum families.
I wish I had advice to give. Sad

PeanutMama

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:23 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

I agree with every single word of this.

amother

Copper

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:30 pm

Hi Op,
I felt similarly to you, my husband and I have similar stories but I found that once my kids were old enough to go to 'real school' I got to know more people and it wasn't so intimidating...mostly because more people than not these days are in the same boat. Finding a shul you like with a rav who connects with your husband can be so helpful too (easier said than done sometimes). I live in Chicago, so much more of a mix than some cities although it's not so middle of nowhere that there's just a community school, know what I mean? I think that as you make more connections where you are, you may start to feel like less of an outsider. Plus people stop asking so much, I think. Once you're 'in'. Sorry if this doesn't make a ton of sense, it's been a long day

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 8:06 pm

Sorry OP that sounds nuts. Reminds me of a friend of mine who has both yichus and connections. When she was trying to get her dd into a particular elementary school, she thought she would have no problem because the principal was her aunt.

Well, her aunt put her on a waiting list and wouldn't return her calls. Rolling Eyes

When she found herself trying to get other family members to speak to her aunt, she realized that they were probably better off someplace else. They found a different school which wasn't their first choice but they ended up very happy.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 12:06 pm

I’m a giyoris, dh is a bt, we don’t fill out the grandparents section because the grandparents wouldn’t like to receive the fundraising mailings (they’re anti the chinuch we’re giving). Just put your shul rov and don’t worry! There are lots of us out here! It’s BH pretty common.

amother

Orange

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 12:13 pm

Your family will be an asset to any school and please don't read so much into the questions on the application. It's okay to leave some things blank! My husband is a BT and we had no problem getting our children enrolled without his parents information listed. I really don't think this is a deciding factor as to whether they accept your child - it's more for their mailing list.

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 12:16 pm

Just wanted to say OP- if you're in Brooklyn, just fill it all out but don't worry about it. Dh and I are like you and we got our children into a number of great schools. They've kept their old applications, but that stuff doesn't matter to them anymore. They're happy to accept any regular, ehrlich, frum family.

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