The Chosen by Chaim Potok

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tigerwife

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:10 pm

I just finished this book and would love to discuss it.
I’m going to include spoilers so if you still want to read the book, don’t read this thread!

First of all, do you think he gave a fair portrayal of chassidim?

I’m curious if anyone knows if these points are accurate-
Was it acceptable for chassidish boys to go to a college (even a Jewish one) in the forties?
What’s the deal with “silence” communication? Does/did this exist in any rebbish lines? I am familiar with 2 rebbes only but they are/were very warm and caring to their sons. The concept is interesting but I’m wondering if it’s completely made up.
I think it’s a pity that Danny thought he could only be a practicing psychologist if he was clean shaven.
What did you think of Reb Saunders at the end? Like him, hate him, ambivalent?

Also, I keep thinking if only I was so intellectual and studied mathematics and psychology (not to mention new languages) in my free time!

All in all, it was a very well-done, emotional piece on friendship and father/son relationships.

Opal

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:16 pm

I read it ages ago and loved it. I still read it again from time to time. I can't really answer any of your questions as I'm not from that community (it maybe hints to Satmar because of the anti-Zionism) but I always have wondered on the "silence" idea. I will definitely listen in on this discussion Smile

rainbow dash

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:17 pm

I love all his books but read them over 20 years ago

miracleshappen

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:19 pm

The Chosen is one of my all time favorite books. Brings me to tears every time I read it. I too wondered about the silence thing, whether it’s meant to be some sort of deep symbolism or whether it was an actual parenting method

youngishbear

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:20 pm

I also read it too long ago to weigh in on specific questions, but I want to follow the discussion.

Hmm.

tigerwife

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:21 pm

Opal wrote:

Right, they are anti-Zionist but cannot be Satmar as they lived in America already and were originally from Russia. I thought the way the boys’ relationship was juxtaposed with the current events of the time was brilliant.

tigerwife

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:23 pm

miracleshappen wrote:

Goodness, so.many.tears. The parts with Billy and Mr. Savo were especially emotional. And the last speech at the end.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:27 pm

It seems pretty clearly based on Chabad actually, minus some of the details (like long payos).
ETA: I may be mixing it up with the Ladover Chassidim in My Name is Asher Lev, actually. I’ve read that one more recently.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:33 pm

definitely NOT based on Chabad

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:37 pm

tigerwife wrote:

Goodness, so.many.tears. The parts with Billy and Mr. Savo were especially emotional. And the last speech at the end.

Who was Billy and Mr. Savo?
I read the book several times but dont remember those two chatacters.

leah233

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:37 pm

tigerwife wrote:

I just finished this book and would love to discuss it.
I’m going to include spoilers so if you still want to read the book, don’t read this thread!

(1)First of all, do you think he gave a fair portrayal of chassidim?

I’m curious if anyone knows if these points are accurate-
(2)Was it acceptable for chassidish boys to go to a college (even a Jewish one) in the forties?
(3)What’s the deal with “silence” communication? Does/did this exist in any rebbish lines? I am familiar with 2 rebbes only but they are/were very warm and caring to their sons. The concept is interesting but I’m wondering if it’s completely made up.
(4)I think it’s a pity that Danny thought he could only be a practicing psychologist if he was clean shaven.
(5)What did you think of Reb Saunders at the end? Like him, hate him, ambivalent?

Also, I keep thinking if only I was so intellectual and studied mathematics and psychology (not to mention new languages) in my free time!

All in all, it was a very well-done, emotional piece on friendship and father/son relationships.

(1)No, but yes by todays standards of depicting Chasidim.
(2)There weren't enough Chasidim in the early 40s in the US for there to be a formal position among them on the issue. The Boyaner Rebbe's children went to college. So did the children of some other rebbes . But none of them remained Chasidim
(3)Totally made up. Potok himself didn't deny that
(4)I think he was 100% correct. The way things were in the 40s he never could have gotten anywhere as a psychologist with a beard and dressed like a chosid. He also had no option to open a private practice or work for a frum office.
(5)Rabbi Saunders seemed like a real Tzadik. A guy who spent all his time learning Torah and worrying about his Chasidim and worrying that his son would have the empathy and values the position would require. This silence business was only to teach his son empathy

tigerwife

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:40 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

Who was Billy and Mr. Savo?
I read the book several times but dont remember those two chatacters.

They were his neighbors in the hospital. Billy was the blind boy and and Mr. Savo was the boxer. I was so sad about Billy’s surgery being unsuccessful. Mr. Savo was also doing a lot worse than he let on.

tigerwife

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:49 pm

leah233 wrote:

(1)No, but yes by todays standards of depicting Chasidim.

I hear that. You definitely come in with a negative point of view because the Malters are “misnagdim”. But there were certain times where there was a human understanding despite the pre-existing prejudice. Mr. Malter says something like, Graetz was wrong, there’s enough to hate about chassidim without adding stories... I thought the fighting between the Zionist and anti Zionist students was unfairly biased, until Jews began being slaughtered by Arabs and then the zionists listened guiltily to he chassidim crying about weren’t enough Jews killed already without us instigating this...

I think Reb Saunders was shown as a great man in the end, and the reader was led to understand that you cannot form an intelligent opinion on a world when you only get a glimpse.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 7:50 pm

I liked the book but I don't know how accurate of a portrayal it is.
The sequel was very farfetched, imo.

Opal

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 9:31 pm

Yeah I don't think I even finished the sequel, I was that unenthralled.

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 9:37 pm

I actually came away with the feeling that Reb Saunders was unnecessarily cruel, on the alter of teaching his son empathy.

ImmaBubby

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 9:46 pm

I don’t know when the book was published but it was probably within 20-25 years after WW 2 ended. I wonder if the silent treatment was a reaction to the horrors of the holocaust...

tigerwife

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 9:58 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

I actually came away with the feeling that Reb Saunders was unnecessarily cruel, on the alter of teaching his son empathy.

It was strange and even cruel to everyone else but his own son still loved and respected him. Not only that, he said he may use the method with his own kids!

Reb Saunders paralleled Mr. Malter in the way they took on the klal’s burden, but in very different ways. I wonder if the reader’s background sways the general interpretation.

#BestBubby

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 11:28 pm

I liked the book but it is Apikorsus.

The idea that a genius would be "bored" with Gemorah, when the greatest geniuses of all
time could never fathom the entire "sea" of Torah.

Negative portrayal of chassidim, the made up "silent treatment" while the Modern Father-Son
had a warm relationship.

Rabbi Twersky was a medical doctor/psychiatrist who had a beard, payos and full levush in
the 1960s - but he was definitely Unique.

#BestBubby

Sun, Mar 07 2021, 11:30 pm

This book was about Satmar Chassidim (Very Anti-Zionist) although they made up another chassidus.

The Second book, My Name is Asher Lev, was about Lubavitch Chassidim, although they made
up another chassidus.

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