Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
How to present spouse or ex spouse’s bad behavior to teens



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Mar 08 2021, 7:34 pm
This is sort of a spin-off of the thread where the OP asked about letting her children know she doesn’t love their father.

In responding to that, as well as in other threads, I’ve seen posters talk about how important it is not to talk negatively about a spouse or ex spouse, including things that are true... I remember a poster said something like how if they’d say something about their dad’s personality that was negative their mom would flat out deny it...

So here’s my question-dh and I recently separated and are planning to divorce shortly. There are many things that dh has done in the past (ie cheated on me multiple times, spent well over $100k on gambling, etc) that are objectively awful things and good reasons for me to divorce. I don’t plan on ever mentioning anything about them to my children (to my knowledge they know nothing about those activities and I plan to do my best to keep it that way). There are other things that make him difficult to live with (having a hair trigger temper, extreme rigidity, being very critical and at times mean...) that some of them (the ones in their teens specifically), have mentioned or complained to me about.

While I would never bring this up with any of my younger kids (or whichever kids don’t mention it on their own) it seems very... invalidating to me to deny the experience of the ones who bring it up with me. It is also one of the (many) reasons I am finally leaving the marriage (not wanting my children to think these are normal or acceptable ways of behaving) so why would I try to present the behavior as if it IS okay? An example would be if, say, dh inappropriately loses it with 16 year old dd for not helping enough. (Him “losing it” would manifest in him delivering a lengthy tirade to dd about how selfish she is and just in general being over the top angry at her for denying his request.) This comes after she spent the entire day watching her younger siblings so that he (dh) could attend to other things and then when he asks for one more favor she asks if she could please do it tomorrow because she had a final to study for tonight... after being yelled at by him,
she calls me in tears (I’m not with them, it’s dh’s “turn” with the kids)... how do I respond? I really truly don’t want to badmouth him. But I also want her to know that how she’s being treated is not okay and I’m sorry it happened and it’s not her, it’s him...

I’m always so torn in these situations (which unfortunately come up too often). I know it’s
so important not to speak negatively about him. Are there ever exceptions to that rule (of don’t badmouth your child’s parent)?
Back to top

amother
Blue


 

Post Mon, Mar 08 2021, 7:45 pm
You can empathize with her how difficult it is, without adding more fuel to the fire.
Instead of saying "Thats crazy!" You can say, "It must have felt aweful to feel so under appreciated after giving so much of your time."
Focus on her issue, not on the person who has the issue.
Back to top

amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Mon, Mar 08 2021, 7:47 pm
I validate my kids and admit its a hard situation if they bring it up. They need to learn to trust their instincts and see whats functional. I dont badmouth my ex though ill say yes its a hard situation or this is an adult responsibility etc.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Mar 08 2021, 7:51 pm
amother [ Blue ] wrote:
You can empathize with her how difficult it is, without adding more fuel to the fire.
Instead of saying "Thats crazy!" You can say, "It must have felt aweful to feel so under appreciated after giving so much of your time."
Focus on her issue, not on the person who has the issue.


In this specific example (and other times) she specifically asked “did I do something wrong here?” I know the feeling of wondering if maybe you’re the crazy one in the situation (when you’re absolutely not) and my heart breaks that she’s feeling that. Shouldn’t I respond honestly (“no, you did nothing wrong in this situation”) or should I just respond with vague “that must have been so hard for you to go through”s?

I also want to clarify that pointing out (or just agreeing) that the way she was treated was not okay does not add fuel to the fire. As I mentioned, I never raise these issues, I only respond when my children bring them up on their own (which is why these conversations only happen with the older kids, the younger ones are just not as good at articulating these things), and I’m validating (and not working them up to be even more angry).
Back to top

amother
Peach


 

Post Mon, Mar 08 2021, 7:57 pm
ETA
Im grateful my point seems unwarranted bc the posts are on target and helpful.
I am glad my bad experience is not indicative of a widespread issue.

This isn’t advice but an opinion.
Although there may be some smart posters who can advise you here , in my experience this is a question for those who are either very professional AND experienced, or for those who have btdt and dealt with it in a positive way.
This is a difficult parsha and you deserve support. I would get yourself a coach/ therapist /adviser for this. ( Aside for your personal therapy -which in my case I’m too busy with dealing with my own stuff. And she agreed ). My situation is not as complicated as yours but in the same arena and I innocently expected therapists to have the right guidance. Many were not on target and were ill equipped to advise. I hope you find the right shaliach.
And bc of the “off” answers both irl and here Id suggest asking this in the private divorce forum. Not that I can promise you will be protected fully there either.
I had some bad experiences baring my soul, expecting advice and getting really poor guidance.
Back to top

amother
Plum


 

Post Mon, Mar 08 2021, 8:01 pm
I'm still married to my dh. I struggled with the same thing. In the end, I settled on telling them that all of us have things that are difficult for us that we are working on and have more of a tendency to slip up on, and this is their father's. That it's not an ok thing that happened to them (or in front of them), and they are not at fault and their instincts are correct. And often most importantly, that if they did do something small wrong, that the reaction was out of proportion. And that attempts are being made to work on it, and yes, it feels way too slow.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Mar 08 2021, 8:34 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
This isn’t advice but an opinion.
Although there may be some smart posters who can advise you here , in my experience this is a question for those who are either very professional AND experienced, or for those who have btdt and dealt with it in a positive way.
This is a difficult parsha and you deserve support. I would get yourself a coach/ therapist /adviser for this. ( Aside for your personal therapy -which in my case Im too busy with dealing with my own stuff. And she agreed ). My situation is not as complicated as yours but in the same arena and I innocently expected therapists to have the right guidance. Many were not on target and were ill equipped to advise. I hope you find the right shaliach.
And bc of the “off” answers both irl and here Id suggest asking this in the private divorce forum. Not that I can promise you will be protected fully there either.
I had some bad experiences baring my soul, expecting advice and getting really incomplete and poor guidance.


I do have an individual therapist and I have begun discussing it with her just wanted to get some other input as well.

I actually specifically posted it on a general forum (and not the going through divorce forum) because in addition to moms going through it, I also want to hear from people
who have been in that situation as children of parents who were divorced/divorcing.

You mentioned some “off” advice received here. Can you mention what you think I should/should not be doing in a situation such as the one I described?

Thanks!
Back to top

amother
Sienna


 

Post Mon, Mar 08 2021, 8:38 pm
My husband's psychiatrist told me something about this. When I tell my children their father is dangerous I'm not teaching them something new. They all know he is dangerous. They feel this on their own bones. When I say this to them I am validating what they already know and showing them one parent stands up to abuse.

However, your children never need to know about private things between you and your husband. For example, they don't need to know my husband hit me or had an affair. But they need to know that he is dangerous for their own safety.
Back to top

amother
Turquoise


 

Post Mon, Mar 08 2021, 8:54 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
In this specific example (and other times) she specifically asked “did I do something wrong here?” I know the feeling of wondering if maybe you’re the crazy one in the situation (when you’re absolutely not) and my heart breaks that she’s feeling that. Shouldn’t I respond honestly (“no, you did nothing wrong in this situation”) or should I just respond with vague “that must have been so hard for you to go through”s?

I also want to clarify that pointing out (or just agreeing) that the way she was treated was not okay does not add fuel to the fire. As I mentioned, I never raise these issues, I only respond when my children bring them up on their own (which is why these conversations only happen with the older kids, the younger ones are just not as good at articulating these things), and I’m validating (and not working them up to be even more angry).


I think you should definitely respond honestly. Affirm for her that she did nothing wrong, it wasn't her fault. Her father was unfortunately not acting appropriately.

I agree with not sharing things that are not the kids' business, but here the event already happened. She knows what he did, it's a matter of helping her put it into perspective.

Kudos to you, you sound like you're making the best of a tough situation.
Back to top

amother
Lilac


 

Post Tue, Mar 09 2021, 12:08 am
This is really tricky. Sorry op for having to deal with this.

I believe the children will get to recognise inappropriate behaviour especially teens.
Is she forced to go to him when its his turn or can she decide for herself whether to go or not, as she's 16 already? Often from my experience kids will just limit their contact/visitation and only go when it suits them if they are not happy going.

I have never spoken negatively about my kids father but only validate their frustration and pinpoint the behaviour/action that is wrong, without referring it to him.

Hatslocho rabbo
Back to top

byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 09 2021, 12:51 am
Can you validate and emphathize without badmouth him?

Like "sweetheart you did not wrong, its not you, your are not (whatever he said)" without badmouth him "he has issues , its his problem...."

Your teen kids should be in therapy if they need to be doing visitation with him and this is his behavior. In general I believe that kids going thru parents divorce should be in therapy. Let the therapist help them recognize his issues and accept who he is and what kind of father he is capable of being.
You are too biased to help them with this, and you could end up accused with alienation.
Back to top

amother
Firebrick


 

Post Tue, Mar 09 2021, 2:31 am
To me it seems like a healthy and constructive response to tell the child: "Daddy has an anger problem that he needs to deal with, this is not your fault, I understand why you're upset".

This way, the child knows that her father's behavior is inappropriate (she won't think it's normal in future relationships), and she is also validated for the way she is feeling (honoring emotions and trusting herself).

I would be curious to hear what your therapist says- please share if you can.
Back to top

amother
Lemon


 

Post Tue, Mar 09 2021, 2:50 am
Kids for the most can see that what he did is wrong and fir the most part do not need you to point it out, but yes empathize. If you keep pointing out his negative traits it can back fire, trust me. Don’t go there especially since you say your heading for divorce. It will come back to bite you. Wishing you all the best.
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 09 2021, 6:28 am
This is a side thing but I think it might occur to children that they're mistakes, or doomed to repeat the bad behavior themselves. Ultimately, they'll need to be strong enough to defend themselves, or not let the behavior impact their core, and if appropriate have compassion. Know that there were good things their mother saw in him, and iyH those are the things that will come out and be repeated.

Big hugs to all experiencing this. I hope you have IRL support and shlichim to get you through this and hatzlacha!
Back to top

amother
Orchid


 

Post Tue, Mar 09 2021, 8:05 am
I've been thinking about this subject a lot because I'm dealing with it on a daily basis. Thanks to all posters, I gained clarity. Plus I heard YY Jacobson touching this subject in a lecture for single parents. He spoke in the line of showing real empathy and not denying or shoving the issue under the rug.
Back to top

amother
Sienna


 

Post Tue, Mar 09 2021, 9:17 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
I've been thinking about this subject a lot because I'm dealing with it on a daily basis. Thanks to all posters, I gained clarity. Plus I heard YY Jacobson touching this subject in a lecture for single parents. He spoke in the line of showing real empathy and not denying or shoving the issue under the rug.


This has been so hard for me. I was always the person who never, no matter what, would ever disagree with my husband or say he made a mistake or say differently than him under any circumstances. Unfortunately, however, my current situation left me with no choice and it is hard everyday needing to do damage control. I literally need therapy for myself to be able to deal with telling my children my husband's behavior is a mistake or wrong. I really emphathize with you.
Back to top

amother
Orchid


 

Post Tue, Mar 09 2021, 9:40 am
amother [ Sienna ] wrote:
This has been so hard for me. I was always the person who never, no matter what, would ever disagree with my husband or say he made a mistake or say differently than him under any circumstances. Unfortunately, however, my current situation left me with no choice and it is hard everyday needing to do damage control. I literally need therapy for myself to be able to deal with telling my children my husband's behavior is a mistake or wrong. I really emphathize with you.


I literally watched again and again the piece where Jacobson talks about a similar issue and how to respond. I heard it a total of 8 times! I need to teach myself how to respond. It's a delicate balance. We need to validate the child, yet not put down their father.
Back to top

imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 09 2021, 10:38 am
BTDT.

It is indeed a delicate balance. Sentences like these are useful for older children under attack by an irrationally angry spouse or ex:

"Whenever someone is angry, it's hard for them to see clearly."

"You didn't do anything wrong."

"How can I help you move forward?"

"I think your father loves you, he just sometimes struggles with his own overwhelming feelings. Be respectful, but in general, we don't take responsibility inside ourselves for every criticism that comes our way -- from anyone. We have to think about whether the shoe fits, then we have to think about the appropriate, respectful and kind way to respond."
Back to top
Page 1 of 1 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
S/O mishloach monos to ex husband from kids
by amother
13 Thu, Mar 21 2024, 7:49 am View last post
How to present a gift voucher nicely.
by amother
1 Sun, Mar 17 2024, 1:39 am View last post
S/o hugging- how often do you hug your teens?
by amother
5 Mon, Mar 11 2024, 10:29 am View last post
Yontiv clothes for kids, teens on a budget
by amother
2 Sun, Mar 10 2024, 2:24 pm View last post
Month food for family of 7 with teens- how much?
by amother
4 Sun, Mar 10 2024, 9:51 am View last post