What is the point of seminary, if not going to EY?

amother

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:06 am

I have been thinking about this recently, because I keep seeing advice to posters who cant afford to send their daughter to seminary in Israel, to send to a sem in the US, locally.
And it really got me thinking...
What exactly is the point of seminary? What makes it so "necessary", that if you cant send to Israel, you should still send to a local one?
I hear a lot of people gush that "you cant understand the benefit of a year in Israel...the independance you learn, the kedusha...". Ok. So let's say a year in Israel gives independence, and kedusha of just living there. But aside from the specific aspect of living in EY-what is the point? Do they really really need a year of extra learning?
So much so that they should learn for another year in the states, if they cant go to EY?
What makes the local seminary option such a must? What will they learn that year that they couldnt learn in 12th grade? Is another year of learning really that life changing?
If theyre not going to EY for the experience, why not just start college and go to local shiurim? It makes sense to me...

(Full disclaimer. I do not see the need to go to seminary at all, and im right wing BY type. But im curious what you all think)

amother

Red

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:11 am

To me, the ONLY point of seminary is the year in EY. I sent all of my daughters to seminary in EY because I wanted them to form a relationship with our land and with our people who live there. We have never been in a position to visit and tour as a family (or even singly -- I haven't been there in 25 years, and neither has my husband due to financial constraints) and we made a lot of sacrifices so our daughters could have the experience.
Personally, it's not about the learning at all, though some of my girls enjoyed it and gained from it (while others spent a lot of time out of the dorm and didn't study much at all). If a girl is staying home, it makes much more sense to me for her to start a job/college and do practical things rather than what is essentially 13th grade, but again -- this is just my opinion.

amother

Amethyst

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:21 am

It's possible to go to seminary in the US and go away from home in doing so. Specifically, not everyone lives in NY. And some NY girls might choose to dorm in Lakewood seminary for a more independent experience.

IME, the bulk of the local seminaries in the US where the girls live at home are parts of or work with college programs, so that it's part of their degree. They are also often half day programs, and the girls do work or take other classes. I think it's less about the learning itself and more not sending them straight out into the world without a solid chevrah and support system. They develop a social group who are gathered around a joined purpose and activities. They make connections with educators who focus on the inspiration and on the girls' futures. They have fun and are creative and wacky and whatever.

It's not easy to build your own support system and world when you're out working and/or doing commuter school. This can help a lot. Especially if the school keeps up activities and shiurim they can still go to after they finish. It gives them a home base.

cat81

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:22 am

I don’t believe Israel seminary is even close a to a necessity. Nice - yes, beneficial - yes (in many ways), but a necessity - no. However, I do believe a year away from parents is a necessity.

IMO, the #1 reason for a seminary year away that makes it a must, is the independence that’s needed as part of growth development.

However, for a girl that’s been in sleep away camp for the past 8 years getting her independence, obviously this reasoning is much weakened.

Having said that, it doesn’t have to be a seminary in Israel, only away from parents /family (family from Lakewood sending to Toronto).

~~#2 reason for seminary Year (still not a must) is that it allows the girls to get a year of intense Hebrew studies enabling them to be able to build a true Jewish household etc....~~

Edited to focus on IMO the main reason for a seminary year, regardless of where it is.

Last edited by cat81 on Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:55 am; edited 3 times in total

amother

Brown

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:24 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I agree with you, especially the bolded. We are all aware of the financial burden that seminary places on the families. And we are all aware that these young adults will be getting married soon. So why isn't the process set up to help both parents and child alike? Why is it that this chinuch can't be taught in the 12th grade to help the financially struggling parents. And why is it that the child has to take an extra critical year out of the equation - a critical year in which she can get a jumpstart on her future.

To me personally - this setup is technically a sabbatical year for our girls - equivalent to any sabbatical year that secular young adults take between school and life. We just do it under the guise of spirituality, 'kedusha', etc. We should just call it as it is - a breather year to explore independence. There are many of us who have not gone to seminary and are doing equally great. It is in no way a measure of success/happiness/ehrlichkeit in your future.

Don't get me wrong - there is nothing wrong with a sabbatical year. It's actually great if one can give this to their child. But setting it up as a spiritual need just forces those who can't afford it to stress themselves beyond their means. There shouldn't be any community pressure for a sabbatical year. It shouldn't be something that is in high consideration for shidduchim. It should just be a choice that parents make based on their circumstances.

amother

Brown

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:26 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Local seminaries have been set up because seminaries have become a prerequisite for shidduchim. The seminaries though agree with you about college. They provide college credits to apply towards a degree. Some actually offer an accelerated path towards a degree.

amother

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:29 am

cat81 wrote:

#2 reason for seminary Year is that it allows the girls to get a year of intense Hebrew studies enabling them to be able to build a true Jewish household etc....

I dont know if I can agree with this....if it's that necessary for a 13th year of intense Hebrew studies before our girls are equipped to build a true Jewish household, then I think our chinuch system has failed them the first 12 years. Which I dont think it has. I believe many girls have the firm foundation necessary to build a Jewish home by the time theyve left highschool

amother

Maroon

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:31 am

Why is it important to send boys to learn for so many years, and the girls are expected to be ready to jump into marriage and the secular workplace with only whatever they learned in high school? Even the best high schools have an emphasis on grades, and half the curriculum is secular classes. Give the girls a year to learn Torah, find themselves, and get a support system for their journey to adulthood. I'm good with more than a year, but I understand parnassa becomes necessary at some point.

Chayalle

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:32 am

My girls went to a local seminary that also takes the girls on a two-week tour of E"Y (sadly, I don't think that is possible this year).

During that year, they also started working part-time, bought their own cars and did their own payments, etc....and managing their schedules and finances definitely contributed to their independence. Maybe more than those who go to E"Y but have their parents pay a fortune toward everything they need that year. I know people who help their kids in E"Y with their Shabbos and Y"T plans....I don't think everyone who goes gains all that much more independence.

I saw alot of growth that year. From a social standpoint, seminary had a much broader range of different types of girls. The subjects taught are also of a different and broader scope, with more focus on personal growth, less text based. And because they are local, the girls have more opportunity to be in touch with them as mentors.

One DD was in seminary last year. This year, they have a program once a week for last year's girls, usually consisting of a shiur and a fun activity. It's like getting 2 for 1.

amother

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:32 am

cat81 wrote:

.

IMO, the #1 reason for a seminary year away that makes it a must, is the independence that’s needed as part of growth development.

However, for a girl that’s been in sleep away camp for the past 8 years getting her independence, obviously this reasoning is much weakened.

..

Like you said, some girls have already had many experiences on their own. Summer camp can give ypu a taste of independance . So can a summer trip to Eretz Yisroel, or abroad.
And some girls dont actually need to experience such independance first. I didnt.

amother

Cerulean

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:34 am

The seminary I went to was very much based on the practical and we studied in the afternoons for different qualifications. The rest of the time was different shiurim which all focused very strongly on learning from a practical view and to build a toolbox that would create a strong foundation as you go through life.
I also think as it wasn't 'school', you don't treat it the same way. It's not seen as lecturing to you but rather supporting you and finding yourself.
I gained a lot in my time and it took me on a journey to find myself and what I wanted and believed. I would not have gained this by being at home and doing another year of school.
(btw I didn't go to Israel but rather dormed at a seminary away from my hometown)

amother

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:34 am

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

So the reason to send a girl to a local seminary is because of shidduchim? I dont like "for shidduchim" answers.
I understand the sem may give college credits, bit again, why not just go to a college with a group of frum girls, and go to local shiurim as well? Why the need to enroll in an official seminary?

trixx

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:35 am

cat81 wrote:

#2 reason for seminary Year is that it allows the girls to get a year of intense Hebrew studies enabling them to be able to build a true Jewish household etc....

Things that teach a young woman how to build a true Jewish household:

-relationship and communication skills, for shalom bayis
-psychology of self-awareness
-parenting course
-meal planning, food budgeting, cooking skills
-balancing a budget, finances, taxes
-tips and routines for running a household

Things that don't teach a young woman how to build a true Jewish household:
-intense Hebrew studies

amother

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:36 am

pause wrote:

Originally seminary was a place girls attended to learn how to become teachers, and some girls still do that - as old-fashioned as it is. They learn teaching methods, have the opportunity to observe excellent teachers, and get one-on-one direction with lesson preparation.

So back then, what happened to all the girls who didnt want to become teachers, and didnt go to seminary?
Did they all collapse from lack of hashkafic backbone when they started building their Jewish homes?

little neshamala

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:38 am

trixx wrote:

Gotta agree with you here...not one of my intense Jewish learning classes helped me build my home.
I dont even remember most of what I learned, honestly.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:41 am

trixx wrote:

This. Of all the reasons listed here that’s the most laughable. I went to half day seminary in Brooklyn and didn’t learn anything that would help me in my marriage. LOL. I did get lots of college credits so that made it worth it.

trixx

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:42 am

little neshamala wrote:

Gotta agree with you here...not one of my intense Jewish learning classes helped me build my home.
I dont even remember most of what I learned, honestly.

The more unequipped I find myself for adulting, the more mad I am at our system for failing us.

Truly, what is the objective? Why are we not preparing our girls for what we really want them to do - build functional homes (regardless if they want to have a career, there still needs to be supper on the table).

Then we rant about women who are overwhelmed and husbands who aren't helpful. How prepared were they to manage a household?

Especially in NY high schools when 12th grade is a joke bc there's no Regent subjects, let them learn home ec. Or psychology at the very least. Something useful.

amother

Gold

Thu, Mar 11 2021, 9:44 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

To have one year where you are steeped in Torah, in Israel, and can focus on spiritual and intellectual growth seems like the greatest gift a young woman can get.

But it's only valuable to someone who has those values.