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Why do american israeli kids consider themselves american?

 
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 1:18 pm
hi all,
I would love to understand this.
or be corrected if what I see is not the reality!

(background about myself, I am from a European country and moved to NY for shidduchim since my parents are both american. my husband parents are american and have lived in israel since they were married , all 11 kids born and raised in israel. my husband who was the eldest went to yeshiva in america, thats how we met and married and stayed in USA.)

now every time shidduchim comes up for my sisters and brothers in law, they keep saying no no shes/ hes israeli , its not going to work out.. we need someone american.
I sit there like a good daughter in law, but really I dont understand. all the younger kids speak broken english with a very heavy accent
(besides my husband, since he has been in USA for so long , and since he lived in usa for so many years speaks english most of the time, he was in yeshiva , college etc here and we are married over 10 years )
none of them came to school in usa, and I find most of them so sharp, blunt , and really just so israeli, their personalities and everything that comes along with it.
yes, they live in a beautiful house in yerushalyim but other than that - what makes them american? or even think that they are american? to me they come across regular israelis to me that speak english?
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amother




Smokey
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 1:29 pm
who is saying won't workout - the American parents of these kids, or the kids.... Sounds like the American parents don't want to deal with Israeli in-laws.
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amother




Mauve
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 1:33 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
hi all,
I would love to understand this.
or be corrected if what I see is not the reality!

(background about myself, I am from a European country and moved to NY for shidduchim since my parents are both american. my husband parents are american and have lived in israel since they were married , all 11 kids born and raised in israel. my husband who was the eldest went to yeshiva in america, thats how we met and married and stayed in USA.)

now every time shidduchim comes up for my sisters and brothers in law, they keep saying no no shes/ hes israeli , its not going to work out.. we need someone american.
I sit there like a good daughter in law, but really I dont understand. all the younger kids speak broken english with a very heavy accent
(besides my husband, since he has been in USA for so long , and since he lived in usa for so many years speaks english most of the time, he was in yeshiva , college etc here and we are married over 10 years )
none of them came to school in usa, and I find most of them so sharp, blunt , and really just so israeli, their personalities and everything that comes along with it.
yes, they live in a beautiful house in yerushalyim but other than that - what makes them american? or even think that they are american? to me they come across regular israelis to me that speak english?


I have an aunt and uncle who moved to EY when they got married. They have lived there ever since. They now have kids in shidduchim who (to me) are VERY Israeli. But apparently, the fact that they(the parents) are originally American is very significant. Shidduchim have been hard for them. They need to do shidduchim with families who basically are in the same boat as they are. I don't really get it but this is how it works apparently.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 1:38 pm
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
who is saying won't workout - the American parents of these kids, or the kids.... Sounds like the American parents don't want to deal with Israeli in-laws.

its the kids, they consider themselves american (I think bc they think its cool but now that they are saying no to shidduchim bc of that , im really confused
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amother




Olive
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 1:42 pm
because culturally Israeli homes are different than those that the parents are american. So while the children can manage very well in school and with friends, their mentality of a home is different. Basically they are Israeli to Americans and American to Israelis and they do not have a country identity. At this point it is okay because there are so many American Israelies that there is sort of an identity within the Israeli culture. But realize though they seem totally Israeli to you, to their Israeli counterparts they are not.
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grace413




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 1:45 pm
May be true for some but not all. My son was 6 when we came. We speak English at home. He spent several years in the states then came back and promptly married an Israeli.

I spoke to a neighbor about a shidduch for her son born here
She said he wouldn't consider a new immigrant, needs to have an Israeli.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 1:45 pm
DH has a brother who moved to E"Y. His daughters married Israelis whose parents are not Israeli (actually - American; English; and Australian) but his son married an Israeli girl, with Israeli parents.

He has an aunt who lives in E"Y for many many years, and her sons married Israelis, or American-Israelis. I think shidduchim were harder for her daughter though (she's not married yet). I wonder if this is across the board, or because of the "shidduch crisis", a hakpadah that comes up with girls more than with boys.
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Sesame




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 1:45 pm
I’m assuming they mean Israeli American, but in Israel that’s just called American
Same goes with other countries
I know ppl that call themselves and are considered by everybody as French cos the grandparents made Aliya from France. It’s just the way of saying Israeli French
It’s the way ppl talk here. They’re not trying to say they’re the same but they’re saying they’re not an Israeli family.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 1:49 pm
The culture gap is real. No matter how much we'd like to think that we can all get along with anybody, as long as they are nice.

Ashkenazim and Sephardim, Temani and Ethiopian - heck, even Brits and Americans have culture gaps! People from the Edo Island of Japan are about as far away from Japanese as you can get. They are much more closely related to Native Americans or certain Polynesian cultures.

Not to say that the gap cannot be bridged. People throughout time have proven again and again that love will conquer all, IF it's meant to be.

You just need to find someone who is open minded, and will see these young people as the individuals that they are.
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 1:56 pm
As “the American” child in this situation I think I qualify. Being a child of immigrants makes you different from society, especially if you grew up in a community where most other people were also children of immigrants from the same culture.
I am not from the chareidi community but I have many family members who are.
First there is a bigger gap between Israeli chareidim and American chareidim, both cultural and hashkafic. It’s not the Americans are cooler, but they are more open and less sheltered and sheltering. I have “Israeli” family members who davka married their kids off to children of olim because they are more nuanced and less “in the box.” You must have come across posts here of yeshivish women complaining that they will have to change certain aspects of their lives in order to fit into Israeli society.

In many ways your in laws are Israeli but also in many ways they are not. If you live in the shidduch world then like marries like - parents try to find partners who are as similar as possible to their children in background. In a society where a child of a BT marries another child of a BT of course a child of Anglo olim would seek another child of Anglo Olim as a mate.

Of course none of my parent’s children married “Americans” in fact very few of my circle of friends growing up married people from a similar background.

I do feel a bit different than Israeli Israelis and many times find that I gravitate socially towards other children of olim. I’m sure I would seem very Israeli to you, but I’m also a little American. Being a child of an immigrant is hard and creates a unique experience that makes just a bit different.
I wonder if you have noticed any differences in mentality between your husband who grew up in Israel than yourself.
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 2:02 pm
Sesame wrote:
I’m assuming they mean Israeli American, but in Israel that’s just called American
Same goes with other countries
I know ppl that call themselves and are considered by everybody as French cos the grandparents made Aliya from France. It’s just the way of saying Israeli French
It’s the way ppl talk here. They’re not trying to say they’re the same but they’re saying they’re not an Israeli family.

Yes this. I guess I thought that was obvious, but now realize that it isn’t if you’re not part of this culture.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 2:03 pm
[quote="Sesame"]I’m assuming they mean Israeli American, but in Israel that’s just called American
Same goes with other countries
I know ppl that call themselves and are considered by everybody as French cos the grandparents made Aliya from France. It’s just the way of saying Israeli French
It’s the way ppl talk here. They’re not trying to say they’re the same but they’re saying they’re not an Israeli family.[/quote

what do you mean, they are not an israeli family? they totally are! so the parents speak english most of the time. they have full wardrobes , but everything else I dont understand what is american about them? they dont really read english and as I wrote their spoken english is really broken.
I thought along those lines of what you wrote in the first sentence while they were teenagers , but now the way they need to marry an american . im trying to understand.
I personally dont think they will get along with the classic american , even im too non israeli for my husband - ! I feel my husband is so israeli , he grew up in israel , but when he tells someone now that he is israeli they dont believe him!
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 2:09 pm
[quote="amother [ OP ]"]
Sesame wrote:
I’m assuming they mean Israeli American, but in Israel that’s just called American
Same goes with other countries
I know ppl that call themselves and are considered by everybody as French cos the grandparents made Aliya from France. It’s just the way of saying Israeli French
It’s the way ppl talk here. They’re not trying to say they’re the same but they’re saying they’re not an Israeli family.[/quote

what do you mean, they are not an israeli family? they totally are! so the parents speak english most of the time. they have full wardrobes , but everything else I dont understand what is american about them? they dont really read english and as I wrote their spoken english is really broken.
I thought along those lines of what you wrote in the first sentence while they were teenagers , but now the way they need to marry an american . im trying to understand.
I personally dont think they will get along with the classic american , even im too non israeli for my husband - ! I feel my husband is so israeli , he grew up in israel , but when he tells someone now that he is israeli they dont believe him!

Are they looking for people who made Aliyah or people who are just as “American” as they are?
Anyhow, while there may be cultural gaps between them and American-Americans there may just as well be cultural gaps between them and Israeli Israelis.
I don’t think people need to marry people who are just like them and know many people from very different backgrounds who are married happily. But just giving you perspective.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 2:17 pm
I think its very individual. I know kids that were born here, israel, to olim parents thst wrnt on to marry sabras. Then you have kids born to olim parents ehere the mentality in the home is very much from the alte' heim, wherever they came from, and they end up marrying other kids of olim. Its just a personality thing.
Then again I know some olim families, in the shidduch world who only do shidduchim with other olim families as well. So I think in some cases its aldo a mentality thing.
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abound




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 2:18 pm
When they say they are looking for an american, they mean another American Israeli.
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Teomima




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 3:36 pm
As others have said, there really is a cultural divide.

Of my own siblings/siblings-in-law in Israel, half of us have married fellow anglos and half married sabras (native and culturally Israeli, though in reality EVERYONE has familial cultural identities. So I have one Israeli sibling-in-law who identifies as Yeminite, one who identifies as Indian, etc.) Personally I couldn't imagine marrying a non-anglo, though it's not like I'd eliminate an Israeli if I had felt a deep connection. I've had an easier time identifying with my in-laws, culturally speaking, than my siblings who married sabras, and traveling to the States is easier for me with my husband than it is for my siblings with their spouse's. But one huge advantage, in my opinion, for "marrying local" is having a much larger extended family to marry in to. My sibling's children have more nearby aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents than my own kids do, since much of dh's and my extended family isn't here.
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amother




Pink
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 4:14 pm
Mindset. Culture.
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amother




Pink
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 4:17 pm
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
who is saying won't workout - the American parents of these kids, or the kids.... Sounds like the American parents don't want to deal with Israeli in-laws.

I dunno. I know a family that made aliya when the kids were ages 10 and down. One kid married an Israeli tzabar, almost got divorced, very big culture divide, etc. tough marriage.
The other 2 learned lessons and married children of olim, one was born here and one came when he was 5. Much more calm marriages, without the big ups and downs and culture gaps and expectation and mindset divides... The one who married an Israeli is still married 20 years later and they are doing well but have had to work much much harder.
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amother




Pink
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 4:26 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
because culturally Israeli homes are different than those that the parents are american. So while the children can manage very well in school and with friends, their mentality of a home is different. Basically they are Israeli to Americans and American to Israelis and they do not have a country identity. At this point it is okay because there are so many American Israelies that there is sort of an identity within the Israeli culture. But realize though they seem totally Israeli to you, to their Israeli counterparts they are not.

This
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Mar 11 2021, 5:56 pm
Teomima wrote:
As others have said, there really is a cultural divide.

Of my own siblings/siblings-in-law in Israel, half of us have married fellow anglos and half married sabras (native and culturally Israeli, though in reality EVERYONE has familial cultural identities. So I have one Israeli sibling-in-law who identifies as Yeminite, one who identifies as Indian, etc.) Personally I couldn't imagine marrying a non-anglo, though it's not like I'd eliminate an Israeli if I had felt a deep connection. I've had an easier time identifying with my in-laws, culturally speaking, than my siblings who married sabras, and traveling to the States is easier for me with my husband than it is for my siblings with their spouse's. But one huge advantage, in my opinion, for "marrying local" is having a much larger extended family to marry in to. My sibling's children have more nearby aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents than my own kids do, since much of dh's and my extended family isn't here.

My parents have seven kids - none of them married Anglos, I think they are a bit disappointed that they don’t have a close relationship with likeminded mechutanim. I do have one single sister - so there’s hope.
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