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Discussion on the Daf - Shekalim
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Mar 30 2021, 4:15 pm
מועדים לשמחה!

Already 9 daf in and less than 2 weeks left, but in the end I felt it would be a shame not to have a thread. I will try to post, I love having the discussion and interaction, but I don't always manage.


Last edited by Aylat on Tue, Mar 30 2021, 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Mar 30 2021, 4:20 pm
First thing that happened to me this masechet was that I panicked that we have כלאים in our garden. I am so ignorant of these הלכות and it had not even entered my head before. So bH for the משנה for raising my awareness.

Anyway, I was out in the garden 3 days before Pesach frantically tearing the passion fruit branches out of the pomegranate tree. Only later after much persistence did I learn that
1) it's vegetables and grapevines and not trees (though passion fruit may be a vegetable)
2) it's roots not branches.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Mar 30 2021, 4:30 pm
משנה ב:ה חטאות ואשמות מותריהן נדבה
I feel like we've come across the concept before that the מזבח shouldn't be בטל (can't remember where) and I don't understand it.
My understanding of קרבנות is that it's about the effect it has on us, the מקריב. Obviously Hashem doesn't need the קרבן. So what is the point in bringing random קרבנות with no specific בעלים just so that the מזבח is 'in use?
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Mar 30 2021, 4:40 pm
Same משנה ב:ה
מותר נזירים לנזירים
They had a fund people could donate to for קרבנות for poor נזירים. I love that.

One could say: look, you know what you're getting into when you vow to be a נזיר. If you can't afford the קרבנות at the end of it, don't get into it in the first place. And then נזירות would be a privilege of the wealthy. But no. We support access for everyone who wants/needs this spiritual challenge/uplift (depending on how you view נזירות).
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batmelech1




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Mar 30 2021, 4:43 pm
I’m confused. Are frum women studying Gemara?
As far as I know it’s asur for women..
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Mar 30 2021, 4:46 pm
שקלים ט:
The famous ברייתא of ר פנחס בן יאיר upon which מסילת ישרים is based! Only, not exactly. There is a different גרסה in עבודה זרה כ which is the one quoted in מסילת ישרים.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Mar 30 2021, 4:51 pm
batmelech1 wrote:
I’m confused. Are frum women studying Gemara?
As far as I know it’s asur for women..


Hi 😀
If you want to discuss whether women can/should learn Gemara, I invite you to start your own thread and/or read through some old threads on the topic. (I'll have a look for the initial discussion we had about learning daf yomi and link it here.) This thread is for discussion about the daf itself, not about whether to learn.

(But, no, it's not אסור.)

ETA this is the thread I was thinking of
https://www.imamother.com/foru.....79015

ETA2 And there was this one too
https://www.imamother.com/foru.....79327
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amother




Plum
 

Post Tue, Mar 30 2021, 11:39 pm
Thanks for starting this Aylat. I rarely have time to post anything, but I like reading what others have to say, and it gives me chizuk to know that others are learning the same Daf, etc. Noting threads you referenced makes me wonder if everyone who started with Brachos is still on board. Haven’t heard from Malky2 in a while. Anyone know what happened to her? Joyinthemorning - you haven’t commented in a couple of threads. Are you still learning? How about everyone else?

ETA - it’s Mustard (of course) but I like Plum better Wink
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amother




Seafoam
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 12:33 am
Still here, still enjoying.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 1:32 am
I’m feeling so guilty because all I have time for over Pesach is the cliff notes, so to speak. I can’t sit down with the Gemara.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 8:56 am
Hi Mustard/Plum! Hi imorethanamother! Hi Seafoam! Chag sameach Smile
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 9:00 am
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
Thanks for starting this Aylat. I rarely have time to post anything, but I like reading what others have to say, and it gives me chizuk to know that others are learning the same Daf, etc. Noting threads you referenced makes me wonder if everyone who started with Brachos is still on board. Haven’t heard from Malky2 in a while. Anyone know what happened to her? Joyinthemorning - you haven’t commented in a couple of threads. Are you still learning? How about everyone else?

ETA - it’s Mustard (of course) but I like Plum better Wink


Though I would be more motivated to post if I could count on getting getting feedback and mutual discussion, I definitely understand not having time! Kudos to naturalmom5 (wherever you are, hope you find this thread Smile ) for continuing to post with zero feedback from anyone.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 9:09 am
imorethanamother wrote:
I’m feeling so guilty because all I have time for over Pesach is the cliff notes, so to speak. I can’t sit down with the Gemara.


Firstly, daf yomi's not about guilt, it's about learning whatever we can from the vastness of what there is to learn.

Secondly, I so admire you that you regularly learn with the text. I listen to a shiur (or 2) while driving/walking/houseworking. On Shabbat I sometimes look over the daf, and bH this week I have a bit more time so I'm trying to follow along in the text while listening instead of multi-tasking.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 9:13 am
daf 9a
"מדברים היו עמו משעה שהוא נכנס עד שעה שהוא יוצא"

I get that it's important to act above suspicion. So why send in someone by themselves? Why not send in 2 witnesses with him, or do it publicly somehow?

Also in the משנה
"שמא יעני ויאמרו מעון הלשכה העני, או שמא יעשיר ויאמרו מתרומת הלשכה העשיר"
You can't win! If people want to gossip, they'll find a pretext.
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amother




Plum
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 9:14 am
Aylat wrote:
Firstly, daf yomi's not about guilt, it's about learning whatever we can from the vastness of what there is to learn.

Secondly, I so admire you that you regularly learn with the text. I listen to a shiur (or 2) while driving/walking/houseworking. On Shabbat I sometimes look over the daf, and bH this week I have a bit more time so I'm trying to follow along in the text while listening instead of multi-tasking.


I agree with this. I figure - whatever I get is more than I would if I were not doing it . . . Hoping my second time around, I’ll get even more.

I am trying to keep up with Zichru, though - but I’m finding it harder and harder to keep up, as the demands are becoming more intensive. I set a goal of reviewing 10 Daf a day, which doesn’t sound like much - but on top,of everything else, I’m finding it to be challenging to fit it in. Still, as noted, even if I can’t remember everything - it’s still more than not doing anything . . .
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 9:16 am
I'm a bit confused about how they did the תרומה, can anyone explain it to me?
First תרומה: the כהן took from a box, then covered what was left with a leather covering. Anything new was added on top, what was underneath was שיירים. So I thought they took from the heap on top of the leather for the second תרומה. But there's three boxes and they take from a different one each תרומה?
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 9:18 am
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
I agree with this. I figure - whatever I get is more than I would if I were not doing it . . . Hoping my second time around, I’ll get even more.

I am trying to keep up with Zichru, though - but I’m finding it harder and harder to keep up, as the demands are becoming more intensive. I set a goal of reviewing 10 Daf a day, which doesn’t sound like much - but on top,of everything else, I’m finding it to be challenging to fit it in. Still, as noted, even if I can’t remember everything - it’s still more than not doing anything . . .


The bolded is my attitude too.

Are you kidding! 10 daf is loads! I haven't managed to do Zichru since ברכות, but instead I listen to Rabbi Wise's shiur as a basis, and when I have time, to Rabbi Rosner's shiur afterwards.
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amother




Plum
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 11:35 am
Aylat wrote:
Same משנה ב:ה
מותר נזירים לנזירים
They had a fund people could donate to for קרבנות for poor נזירים. I love that.

One could say: look, you know what you're getting into when you vow to be a נזיר. If you can't afford the קרבנות at the end of it, don't get into it in the first place. And then נזירות would be a privilege of the wealthy. But no. We support access for everyone who wants/needs this spiritual challenge/uplift (depending on how you view נזירות).


Maybe the נזיר wasn’t poor when s/he took the vow of נזירות, but s/he lost all the money before the time was up. . . . I do think it’s pretty irresponsible to make a vow that will require taking צדקה to fulfill . . . (According to R’Akiva - we should even make שבת like a weekday rather than take צדקה.) There is so much inequality in this world, and we can only work with what we are given . . . On-the-other-hand, there are often unanticipated circumstances beyond an individual’s control, and we should certainly help those who suffer unexpected misfortune.
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amother




Plum
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 11:41 am
Aylat wrote:
משנה ב:ה חטאות ואשמות מותריהן נדבה
I feel like we've come across the concept before that the מזבח shouldn't be בטל (can't remember where) and I don't understand it.
My understanding of קרבנות is that it's about the effect it has on us, the מקריב. Obviously Hashem doesn't need the קרבן. So what is the point in bringing random קרבנות with no specific בעלים just so that the מזבח is 'in use?


I think that particular korbanos, which are brought by individuals have connection with those individuals (hence חטאות מתות), but korbanos tzibbur have an effect on everyone. I think in the same manner - having the mizbayach in use sets a tone, sends a message, and has an effect on the entire tzibbur . . .
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Mar 31 2021, 11:48 am
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
Maybe the נזיר wasn’t poor when s/he took the vow of נזירות, but s/he lost all the money before the time was up. . . . I do think it’s pretty irresponsible to make a vow that will require taking צדקה to fulfill . . . (According to R’Akiva - we should even make שבת like a weekday rather than take צדקה.) There is so much inequality in this world, and we can only work with what we are given . . . On-the-other-hand, there are often unanticipated circumstances beyond an individual’s control, and we should certainly help those who suffer unexpected misfortune.


Okay, good point, that's possible. There goes my nice dvar Torah Wink OTOH I
don't think it's irresponsible if there's a fund designated for that. Kind of like using a scholarship fund. I wonder how to check which of us is right.
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