Men don't have to make kiddush before eating?

amother

Aubergine

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 9:38 am

Only women who light shouldn't eat.
I don't keep it. Have no idea if it's halacha, minhag or chilukei dayos.
Also abused by my parents this way and don't want to hold onto any part of it.
I am usually too busy to eat before the zman and I can't wait two hours until the men come home.

amother

Scarlet

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:05 am

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

Same. Once I light candles, I have my down time with a coffee.

amother

Pink

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:14 am

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

I have heard of this. Women can't eat once they are mekabel shabbos with candle lighting. Men can't eat once bein hashmashos pass or they were mekabel shabbos during davening at mizmor shir.

This. I once inquired about this. It's only the women and not the girls (not from a Rav though). The women officially are mekabel shabbos when they light the candles, the men officially are mekabel shabbos when they daven. But children aren't really officially mekabel shabbos on their own, so they can rely on either parent to do it for them. So they can choose their father to do it for them, and do as he does.

amother

Pink

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:17 am

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

But there's nothing stopping a woman from making kiddush on her own. So why not make kiddush on your own?

It worked very well on my end. My DH liked to insert control and 'relax' before meals, so I just make kiddush as I see fit. Apparently there's no more need to relax anymore. Now he needs to rouse me to get the meal started Smile

amother

Seashell

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:18 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

We weren't chassidish. And my mother always lit like at almost the eighteenth minute after shkiah. To those who hold that men can eat until shkiah, does it also extend well after the eighteen minutes? I'm trying to figure out what his own rationale was.

I think I can possibly shed light on this.
By some chassidim, the girls accept shabbos when the mother lights candles, and the men accept shabbos when Shabbos really comes in.

Now for most of us, Shabbos comes in 18 minutes after the official candle lighting time, the time listed on the calendars. Even those people that hold that Shabbos is not over until Rabbeinu Tams time still accept the earlier zman to bring in Shabbos.

I once heard that in a certain major chassidus, they really hold of Rabbeinu Tam as the correct time, (even for Friday) and therefore they view bringing in Shabbos at the calendar time as just a respectful thing to do (since that's what most of the frum world does, so they don't want to be doing melacha when most people are already in Shabbos.) But in ptactucality, they dont think its "really" shabbos until a while later, and that is why they daven later.

Once, an uncle of mine was coming to my house in Monsey for Shabbos. He left Brooklyn late and Shabbos came in and he still wasn't there. Shkia came and went and we all figured he parked his car somewhere and will walk the rest of the way. He ended up driving up well into Shabbos and walked into the house calm as a cucumber. I was shocked, confused ...
That's when I heard about this idea. (I'm not sure if my uncle asked a shaila on the eay or just relied in this idea and decided in his own that he can drive until Rabbeinu Tam.)

Can it be OP that your father said only girls can't eat (because girls accept shabbos with their mother's candles) but boys can eat because shabbos doesnt offically start until Rabbeinu Tam?

ETA: I just realized you said you werent chassidish. In that case, maybe none of this makes sense

amother

Scarlet

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:20 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

But there's nothing stopping a woman from making kiddush on her own. So why not make kiddush on your own?

It threw my father into a rage if my mother made kiddush before him. We were “supposed” to wait for my father. Starving was more peaceful.

amother

Seashell

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:21 am

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

If he held of Rabbeinu Taam as the official "night," then it could be he held that we light and take in Shabbos at shkia, but can do things that are not straight out melacha until a later time when bein hashmashos really comes in (which I think is like 45 minutes AFTER the official shkiya on the calendar, which is 18 minutes AFTER the time written to light candles). Women and children (girls only? I'm not sure) would still take it in Shabbos completely when lighting. My husband does this, and not because he's controlling, but because he holds very strongly of rabbeinu taam and this makes sense from that perspective.

I see Brown said this before me.

amother

Pink

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:23 am

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

It threw my father into a rage if my mother made kiddush before him. We were “supposed” to wait for my father. Starving was more peaceful.

Can be done when he is out davening. No need for him to know.

amother

Pink

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:26 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I don't know if they really hold that it's the correct time. It's rather that since there are so many differing opinions about the correct time, that they accept upon themselves the most stringent times to cover all bases. This is why they accept shabbos at the earliest time, but end shabbos at the latest time. They'll daven Maariv when it's after the latest time, cause in this manner it covers all the other differing opinions as well.

In times of some emergency or urgent need, it is accepted to rely on a specific opinion for it - as your uncle did.

amother

Scarlet

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:27 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

Can be done when he is out davening. No need for him to know.

Oh he knew. He always knew.

amother

Pink

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:29 am

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Oh he knew. He always knew.

How?

(And I'm sorry for all that you went through - hope you're doing much better now.)

amother

Scarlet

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:48 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

How?

(And I'm sorry for all that you went through - hope you're doing much better now.)

I’m actually not sure how, but he did. I would never eat though when the others did, so that in his fit of rage, there would always be a bit of decency because someone waited for him.

B”H I’ve come a long way. I’m frum, but I don’t have a clear path in Yiddishkeit that I follow. It sometimes bothers me, sometimes doesn’t.

chanchy123

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 10:55 am

Men aren’t supposed to eat after sundown before davening maariv.
Women also aren’t supposed to eat after they light until kiddush. Certainly you’re not supposed to sit down to eat. If you’re very hungry and feel weak and can’t wait for kiddush you can grab something.

sushilover

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 2:52 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

He probably checked the amount of wine in the bottle before and after shul. I know a woman whose abusive husband used to count the eggs in the carton before leaving to work every morning.

amother

Seashell

Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:56 pm

sushilover wrote:

He probably checked the amount of wine in the bottle before and after shul. I know a woman whose abusive husband used to count the eggs in the carton before leaving to work every morning.

Oy.
This is so sad.