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I learned it this way in school so it must be right
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:00 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I agree. I think the school system by and large does a great job. As a teacher, I stand in awe of my fellow teachers. I am.also very happy, as a whole , with my children's teachers.

As I mentioned above, what inspired this thread was that I had a conversation with someone where I mentioned one of these very basic misconceptions, and her response was "I learned it in school, so that is obviously correct. " I said, go look at the passuk. She had absolutely no interest in checking just because some random imamother said it... Can't Believe It

Maybe its just a different personality type...I don't get it.

To be fair, expecting someone to jump at your anonymous research order/request on an online forum vs their memory of an in-person lesson taught by a respected teacher they knew IRL is not very realistic.
I take most of the stuff I read here with a grain of salt.
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Malkqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:05 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
In the megilla it says Esther was "Dod Mordechai" dod means a neice. There are various opinions on this and because you teach that Esther was a cousin, it doesn't mean that it's correct. We don't know what's absolutely correct.
I never heard of the Purim USA tape.


The words in 2:7 say:
ויהי אמן את הדסה היא אסתר בת דדו

Literal translation:
And he raised Hadassah, who is Esther, the daughter of his uncle
The daughter of one's uncle is one's first cousin.
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Crookshanks




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:06 pm
Malkqueen wrote:
The words in 2:7 say:
ויהי אמן את הדסה היא אסתר בת דדו

Literal translation:
And he raised Hadassah, who is Esther, the daughter of his uncle
The daughter of one's uncle is one's first cousin.

Thank you! I was too lazy to attempt typing in Hebrew Smile
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Crookshanks




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:07 pm
When it says dod Mordechai it's referring to Avichayil, her father.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:10 pm
Malkqueen wrote:
The words in 2:7 say:
ויהי אמן את הדסה היא אסתר בת דדו

Literal translation:
And he raised Hadassah, who is Esther, the daughter of his uncle
The daughter of one's uncle is one's first cousin.


You're, right. I checked it out. But many things in the Megillah are machlokos that we don't know for sure the exact details.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:13 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
You're, right. I checked it out. But many things in the Megillah are machlokos that we don't know for sure the exact details.


I totally agree.
But we do know this detail. This one is not a machlokes.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:17 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I totally agree.
But we do know this detail. This one is not a machlokes.


It is a machlokes because so many people learn that Mordechai was an uncle. I've heard both and I believe both and we'll find out the truth when Moshiach will come. Same with Esther being married to Mordechai. Some say that they were married, some say that they were not married.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:18 pm
amother [ Papaya ] wrote:
To be fair, expecting someone to jump at your anonymous research order/request on an online forum vs their memory of an in-person lesson taught by a respected teacher they knew IRL is not very realistic.
I take most of the stuff I read here with a grain of salt.

Please understand, I certainly don't expect someone to jump at my "anonymous research order" (though, tbh, thats what I would do TMI .).

I was only referring to that blanket statemnt, "we learned it in school, so it's obviously correct. " That's what I found kind of disconcerting.

And it brought home to me the necessity to always be open to learn, and even unlearn if necessary, to arrive at the truth.

Also. In this case, I wasn't talking about anything deep or complicating. It's a basic passuk.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:26 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
It is a machlokes because so many people learn that Mordechai was an uncle. I've heard both and I believe both and we'll find out the truth when Moshiach will come. Same with Esther being married to Mordechai. Some say that they were married, some say that they were not married.


Ok. Sorry to disagree again. Nobody learns that Mordechai was an uncle. No meforash takes the pshat of the passuk and says, "actually he was her uncle." The peshat is as someone posted above. The mistake is an old one, and well-documented. It is traced back to Josephus.

The pshat is basic lashon hakodesh. But you can read an English megilla as well if you like.

In terms of Mordechai being married to Esther, that is a real thing. The passuk says he took her for a daughter, "bas". So the meforshim say "bas" can read as "Bayis, " meaning he married her.

I have been saying that for so many years and yet, if I'm wrong, would love to be shown proof. If you can point me to one source, any Torah source, that says he is her uncle, I would be forever grateful to you.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:29 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Ok. Sorry to disagree again. Nobody learns that Mordechai was an uncle. No meforash takes the pshat of the passuk and says, "actually he was her uncle." The peshat is as someone posted above. The mistake is an old one, and well-documented. It is traced back to Josephus.

The pshat is basic lashon hakodesh. But you can read an English megilla as well if you like.

In terms of Mordechai being married to Esther, that is a real thing. The passuk says he took her for a daughter, "bas". So the meforshim say "bas" can read as "Bayis, " meaning he married her.

I have been saying that for so many years and yet, if I'm wrong, would love to be shown proof. If you can point me to one source, any Torah source, that says he is her uncle, I would be forever grateful to you.


This is what meforshim say, that bas CAN be read as bayis, not that it was for sure this way. Which means that we don't know for sure and it's a chilukay dayas. There can be countless meforshim on one certain topic.
אלו ואלו דברי אלוהים חיים
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:31 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
In the megilla it says Esther was "Dod Mordechai" dod means a neice. There are various opinions on this and because you teach that Esther was a cousin, it doesn't mean that it's correct. We don't know what's absolutely correct.
I never heard of the Purim USA tape.


Ok, I hope this was answered already.
Dod means uncle, not niece.
And it says that the father of Esther was "dod Mordechai", the uncle of Mordechai.

And Purim USA is an awesome tape. Aside from that mistake, it is genius. My kids love it.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:33 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
This is what meforshim say, that bas CAN be read as bayis, not that it was for sure this way. Which means that we don't know for sure and it's a chilukay dayas. There can be countless meforshim on one certain topic.
אלי ואלי דברי אלוהים חיים


Agreed. There are different opinions about that issue.
Not about the uncle/cousin thing.

By the way, it may be a problem to write out Hashem's name here.

(And the word is Elu (with a vav), sorry no hebrew font. )
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:36 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Agreed. There are different opinions about that issue.
Not about the uncle/cousin thing.

By the way, it may be a problem to write out Hashem's name here.

(And the word is Elu (with a vav), sorry no hebrew font. )


Right, autocorrect changed the spelling. I didn't write out elokim either, autocorrect changed it.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:38 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
Right, autocorrect changed the spelling. I didn't write out elokim either, autocorrect changed it.

👍
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:53 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
In the megilla it says Esther was "Dod Mordechai" dod means a neice. There are various opinions on this and because you teach that Esther was a cousin, it doesn't mean that it's correct. We don't know what's absolutely correct.
I never heard of the Purim USA tape.

Purim usa was made by rabbi mendlowitz of monsey. I loved it growing up and so do my kids. They know it word for word.
He’s a son or grandson of mr/rabbi mendlowitz founder of Torah Umesorah. I’m sure he can discuss all your concerns about his tape if you call him
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Amelia Bedelia




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:55 pm
It used to be a pet peeve of mine when hearing people refer to Mordechai as Esther's uncle, being that it says straight out in the megillah that he's her cousin. But it's just so widespread that I finally realized it must be another opinion- or even, as I think I heard recently, both her uncle and cousin!
You're correct regarding mishloach manos needing two different food items and not two different brachos.

Btw, chimash is the way chumash is pronounced with a chassidish havara.
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 3:56 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Please understand, I certainly don't expect someone to jump at my "anonymous research order" (though, tbh, thats what I would do TMI .).

I was only referring to that blanket statemnt, "we learned it in school, so it's obviously correct. " That's what I found kind of disconcerting.

And it brought home to me the necessity to always be open to learn, and even unlearn if necessary, to arrive at the truth.

Also. In this case, I wasn't talking about anything deep or complicating. It's a basic passuk.

With Halacha, I find that most of the misconceptions are because the kids hear the wrong thing at home or parents never really discuss with their kids so they don’t know what’s right and wrong, just some vague idea.
I feel like we spend the whole elementary school teaching things the girls should learn from home and undoing misinformation from there.
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Amelia Bedelia




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 4:00 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
In the megilla it says Esther was "Dod Mordechai" dod means a neice. There are various opinions on this and because you teach that Esther was a cousin, it doesn't mean that it's correct. We don't know what's absolutely correct.
I never heard of the Purim USA tape.

No! It says that Esther was the daughter of Avichayil, who was the uncle of Mordechai. Dod is uncle, not niece!!! Her father being Mordechai's uncle makes her his cousin.


Last edited by Amelia Bedelia on Fri, Apr 02 2021, 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 4:06 pm
amother [ Ginger ] wrote:
With Halacha, I find that most of the misconceptions are because the kids hear the wrong thing at home or parents never really discuss with their kids so they don’t know what’s right and wrong, just some vague idea.
I feel like we spend the whole elementary school teaching things the girls should learn from home and undoing misinformation from there.


I spent most of elementary and all of high school learning hilchos Shabbos.
And now, so many years later, I often feel rusty.

Besides for it having been so many years ago, when we learned it, it was mostly theoretical. Once you are in the kitchen, its a whole different ballgame. (I remeber my Rav in seminary talking about halachos of the crockpot. I had NO idea what that was. My mother didn't use one. I was picturing a large pot!)

Also, certain melachos I deal with all the time, others not so much.

For example, I am not a coffee or tea person. For many years I didnt even own a hot water urn. Recently, I got an urn, and a guest asked for coffee. I had to make sure I was doing it correctly, since it was not something I was in the habit of doing on Shabbos.

I need to ask often, and if dh is not home and I need to know right away, I have hilchos Shabbos sefarim at home.

When it comes to hilchos Shabbos, it's important to constantly brush up on the halachos.

Some families have the practice of learning a halacha at every shabbos meal.
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amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 4:16 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I spent most of elementary and all of high school learning hilchos Shabbos.
And now, so many years later, I often feel rusty.

Besides for it having been so many years ago, when we learned it, it was mostly theoretical. Once you are in the kitchen, its a whole different ballgame. (I remeber my Rav in seminary talking about halachos of the crockpot. I had NO idea what that was. My mother didn't use one. I was picturing a large pot!)

Also, certain melachos I deal with all the time, others not so much.

For example, I am not a coffee or tea person. For many years I didnt even own a hot water urn. Recently, I got an urn, and a guest asked for coffee. I had to make sure I was doing it correctly, since it was not something I was in the habit of doing on Shabbos.

I need to ask often, and if dh is not home and I need to know right away, I have hilchos Shabbos sefarim at home.

When it comes to hilchos Shabbos, it's important to constantly brush up on the halachos.

Some families have the practice of learning a halacha at every shabbos meal.


With Hilchos shabbos I find that the priority is to alert the girls as to what could be a shaalah and when they should ask because it's unrealistic for them to actually learn all the relevant Halachos in depth.
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