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amother




OP
 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 4:27 pm
amother [ Ginger ] wrote:
With Halacha, I find that most of the misconceptions are because the kids hear the wrong thing at home or parents never really discuss with their kids so they don’t know what’s right and wrong, just some vague idea.
I feel like we spend the whole elementary school teaching things the girls should learn from home and undoing misinformation from there.


This is true. Many children see one thing at school and come home and see their parents doing something different. This creates a lot of confusion.
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cbsp




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Apr 02 2021, 4:43 pm
Rabbi Stern from BLOPPY HS (Aka Prospect) started out the year teaching Sefer Yehoshua with this modified axiom:

"Familiarity breeds ignorance"

OP, much of the misconceptions may be because we keep what we learned in kindergarten (which was appropriately taught on that level) and then forget to revisit the subject as we mature and have a greater capacity for understanding.

(and no, it's not a great conspiracy. Compare what's learned in Biology in 2nd grade, 9th grade, and AP bio - same subject, more detail and nuance and even "correcting" some areas that were glossed over or so oversimplified as to seem to be false.)
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amother




Tan
 

Post Sun, Apr 04 2021, 8:35 am
Some girls get the kind of education that lets them look things up on their own and some don't. For those in the second group, it's a whole lot harder to move on from what they learned as little children. They just don't have the tools.

Some people are naturally curious and some are not. Some can overcome the handicap of poor skills and some can't. And some just don't care.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Apr 04 2021, 9:40 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Some girls get the kind of education that lets them look things up on their own and some don't. For those in the second group, it's a whole lot harder to move on from what they learned as little children. They just don't have the tools.

Some people are naturally curious and some are not. Some can overcome the handicap of poor skills and some can't. And some just don't care.


Wise words
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amother




Blonde
 

Post Sun, Apr 04 2021, 10:17 pm
I didn't read thru the whole thread, I saw the OP and some responses and just had to add in my 2 cents.
What drives me crazy is when a teacher says something to the class and then says it's Halacha. Most of the time it probably is, some of the time it's for sure not but she wants to make it clear that there's no 2 ways so she tells the class it's halacha. I have had to tell my kids that if there's something they're not sure about especially when teacher says it's halacha, they need to clarify it with me. I don't want to start listing examples, I don't want to derail the thread, just felt like I have to say this. If you're a teacher teaching limudei kodesh subjects, make sure whatever you're teaching the girls is really halacha. Hilchos shabbos is one where I've had to clarify a lot because the teacher was teaching it wrong.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Apr 04 2021, 10:20 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
I didn't read thru the whole thread, I saw the OP and some responses and just had to add in my 2 cents.
What drives me crazy is when a teacher says something to the class and then says it's Halacha. Most of the time it probably is, some of the time it's for sure not but she wants to make it clear that there's no 2 ways so she tells the class it's halacha. I have had to tell my kids that if there's something they're not sure about especially when teacher says it's halacha, they need to clarify it with me. I don't want to start listing examples, I don't want to derail the thread, just felt like I have to say this. If you're a teacher teaching limudei kodesh subjects, make sure whatever you're teaching the girls is really halacha. Hilchos shabbos is one where I've had to clarify a lot because the teacher was teaching it wrong.


In my experience as both a student in BY and seminary, and having my girls in the BY system, halacha was always taughy by a Rav who was an expert in hilchos shabbos.
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amother




Blonde
 

Post Sun, Apr 04 2021, 10:22 pm
That makes me happy to hear
You can't imagine how many times I clarified things that should've been taught properly to the point where I've told my kids to write on the test whatever the teacher taught them and then forget that answer because it's wrong.
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amother




Ginger
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:07 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
In my experience as both a student in BY and seminary, and having my girls in the BY system, halacha was always taughy by a Rav who was an expert in hilchos shabbos.

This. Always.
I b”h had excellent rebbeim, and my daughters do as well.
If we have a shayla, (lol over yom time there were a few) they’ve looked things up or my husband did.
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amother




Coffee
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 9:00 am
I'm surprised no one mentioned how this extends even later to seminary or Kallah classes.

I've heard Tanach teachers in seminary censoring things because apparently adult women can't learn the truth about stories like Avishag etc without causing scandal. BH I had a good Nach teacher who shared all the details!

Imagine my surprise when I learned what actually happened during parshas Pinchas from my husband.

And during kallah classes, so many women are taught chumras has halacha. For my first year of marriage, I really thought wearing a white nightgown and tichel along with all white linens was what I had to do. I learned later on my own that white underwear and a white sheet is sufficient....
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 9:34 am
amother [ Ginger ] wrote:
Op, just because someone married a Rosh yeshiva, doesn’t mean she is smart or educated.
I really don’t mean this to disparage pre school teachers but there’s a reason she’s teaching pre school and not high school Chumash.
If she doesn’t know basic Halacha that my second grade daughter knows, it’s a problem. Btw the hint to that Halacha is straight in the kitzur as well in hilchos mishloach manos. (Matanos is plural, ish lraiaihu is singular)
Mistakes just don’t fly in my children’s school as b”h there is a solid system of checking things over by all the principals.
There is also a very involved and educated parent body that would complain ASAP, if there were mistakes. I know I would.


I went to BJJ around 25 years ago, and they had a special program to train as preschool teachers. (wonder if they still have it). It was taught by a veteran preschool teacher who was a very chashuve, brilliant woman.

Just sayin'.

(Since I did not plan on teaching, I participated in that program. I figured I'd gain some insight for parenting there, rather than spend my year observing and teaching grade school. There were some very bright girls in the group, BTW...who planned to actually teach preschool. So no, there's no negative reason she's teaching preschool and not high school Chumash. Maybe child psychology interests her...and no offense, I've had some high school Chumash teachers who did not come to the toes of some preschool teachers I've met, with regards to understanding their students.)
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amother




Aqua
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 9:41 am
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

And during kallah classes, so many women are taught chumras has halacha. For my first year of marriage, I really thought wearing a white nightgown and tichel along with all white linens was what I had to do. I learned later on my own that white underwear and a white sheet is sufficient....

Of course it's not halacha. But if it's your family's minhag, iow, if that's what your mother does, you should be doing that too.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 9:42 am
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
I learned later on my own that white underwear and a white sheet is sufficient....


And I learned that the white sheet is a chumrah.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 10:44 am
White turban? I never heard that one.
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amother




Ginger
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 12:03 pm
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
I'm surprised no one mentioned how this extends even later to seminary or Kallah classes.

I've heard Tanach teachers in seminary censoring things because apparently adult women can't learn the truth about stories like Avishag etc without causing scandal. BH I had a good Nach teacher who shared all the details!

Imagine my surprise when I learned what actually happened during parshas Pinchas from my husband.

And during kallah classes, so many women are taught chumras has halacha. For my first year of marriage, I really thought wearing a white nightgown and tichel along with all white linens was what I had to do. I learned later on my own that white underwear and a white sheet is sufficient....

It sounds like you went to Chassidish schools. It’s a completely different story as I mentioned to the op, many here will mix up Chassidish and yeshivish and it’s two different worlds. Regular by schools don’t cover up tanach at age appropriate ages. In every by school that I know, melachim aleph is 8th grade and there’s really nothing to gloss over with avishag anyways.
I went to one of the most yeshivish schools in the tri state area. We learnt in depth “difficult inyanei tanach”. Btw, anything in tanach is accessible for anyone to see.
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Proudly Right




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:23 pm
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
Some more misconceptions:

We don't eat giraffes because we're not sure where on its neck to shecht it. (Actually, it's easier with a long neck. But giraffe meat is expensive and not particularly tasty.)

Muktzah means you're not allowed to touch the item on Shabbos. (You're actually not allowed to MOVE the item.)


Another common mistake - Chava picked an APPLE from the Eitz Hadaas.

There are various opinions on what fruit it was but one thing is clear: it was NOT an apple. The apple version is a Xtian lie.
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amother




Tan
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:37 pm
Proudly Right wrote:
Another common mistake - Chava picked an APPLE from the Eitz Hadaas.

There are various opinions on what fruit it was but one thing is clear: it was NOT an apple. The apple version is a Xtian lie.


Not a lie, a misunderstanding. Many Christian translations of the Bible refer - correctly - to an unspecified fruit. But the Latin word for apple is "malus", which also means "evil" so you can see how that idea might have taken hold in Jerome's translation. Also, the artists who painted pictures of Adam and Eve were Europeans who were familiar with apples. And for a long time, the word "apple" in English was just the generic word for any hard fruit.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:52 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Not a lie, a misunderstanding. Many Christian translations of the Bible refer - correctly - to an unspecified fruit. But the Latin word for apple is "malus", which also means "evil" so you can see how that idea might have taken hold in Jerome's translation. Also, the artists who painted pictures of Adam and Eve were Europeans who were familiar with apples. And for a long time, the word "apple" in English was just the generic word for any hard fruit.


Interesting!
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amother




Silver
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 2:39 pm
Proudly Right wrote:
Another common mistake - Chava picked an APPLE from the Eitz Hadaas.

There are various opinions on what fruit it was but one thing is clear: it was NOT an apple. The apple version is a Xtian lie.

I've never seen any Orthodox sources reference it as an apple. It is not taught as an apple in frum schools.
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