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Baby whisperer help for baby 11 weeks old
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:56 am
trixx wrote:
No easy at night. Keep it dark and put to bed. No swing for her.
Did she wake bc of a burp stuck inside? Take her out, burp, change if poop, put back to bed whatever it takes.
Sounds like over tiredness-crying then quiet etc


we burped, changed her, made sure she was comfy.
but her eyes were wide open and she was wide awake! she was looking at her mobile for a bit..

now I see shes falling asleep in the swing... I dont want this to be a nightly occurence...

if the goal is to get my baby to eat at around 8 and wake up at 12 every night, how can we avoid this overtiredness?

and is it really overtiredness if she was sleeping for 3 hours before?

ETA: its 2:25 and shes still kvetching. shes on her tummy in the crib and my dh is with her...
I dont know what to do bc at 12 when she woke up she only had 3 oz... and then at 2 since she was still awake I gave her more milk and she had another 2 oz... I wish she would consolidate these feeds and not snack so much...
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amother




Cyan
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 5:54 am
OP, I have a 5 mo and I relate to a lot of your post as only recently I was sleep deprived, desperate and confused. We ended up seeing a sleep consultant who helped a lot and I also did tons of research during that time so I'll share my thoughts. (Apologies this is long, it's near and dear to my heart right now.)

First of all, congrats to all your friends whose kids happily sleep through the night from 7 to 7. I'm sure they're patting themselves on the back for the tremendous chinuch they did in their child's first eleven weeks of life. They will keep congratulating themselves unless and until they have a baby that's like most babies, one who isn't so easily "mechanech" to sleep. There are definitely things we can do as parents to try to foster healthy sleep habits. But (you may not want to hear this, I certainly didn't want to) there are some babies who just aren't going to sleep from 7 to 7 at this age, and that's fine, and they're healthy and doing what they're supposed to be doing. That said, we still need to encourage healthy sleeping habits for our babies and create a healthy sleep environment.

Recouping sleep debt
Your immediate challenge is that sleep begets sleep, overtiredness begets more overtiredness, and your baby is probably very overtired. An overtired baby is going to have worse quality sleep, wake more, have more difficulty going down, and will accrue sleep debt, but you have to overcome that hurdle. I'm not familiar with the program you're using but babies around 3 months can have awake windows anywhere from 45 to 90 minutes. (Maaaybe 2 hours but definitely not an overtired baby.) Until your baby starts recouping her sleep debt, I'd start putting her to sleep 45 minutes after waking. It sounds nuts but that's what the sleep consultant advised and it worked. Eventually you will probably notice the sleep signs later and can keep her up for longer ends of the window. You want her day naps to be at least 1.5 hours but you'll have to train her there (more on that in a bit). Even later, if her nap is shorter than 1.5 hours and you can't get her back to sleep, consider putting her down again 45 minutes later.

You'll want to encourage her to sleep in her crib, where she gets the best quality of sleep. However, when you're initially trying to recoup sleep, I'd say for day naps, if she won't go down in the crib, do what you can to get her to sleep wherever that is so that your night sleep might be successful. Try the crib first but if that doesn't work and you need to wear her, wear her. If she'll only do the swing, do the swing. This isn't a long term plan, just one to get you through this first part.

Watch for tired signs
Awake windows are helpful, but always watch for early tired signs and put your baby down as soon as you see them, regardless of the window you had in mind. You want to put baby down by early tired signs and not wait until the later ones. Remember, once you wait until your baby is overtired, it's more difficult to get them to sleep! Different babies have different tired signs, but common early ones include red eyebrows, staring off in the distance, not being able to focus for more than a second (not holding your eye contact for more than a second or two). Later baby will start yawning, and later whining and eventually crying.

If your baby is trying to sleep, do not keep her awake. She's tired, let her sleep.

Healthy sleep environment
Create an environment that will tell your baby it's sleep time. The room should be all dark for all day naps and night sleep. Use a proper white noise machine to block out outside noise. If you share a room, try not to disturb the environment when baby is sleeping. During proper sleep times, don't change the environment (like put baby in a swing). Don't talk to baby if she wakes for a night feed. Nighttime is for sleeping, not playing. Consider getting overnight nappies and don't change baby unless she's dirty or very wet. You can use a barrier cream before putting her down. You want to create the least disturbance possible to allow her to sleep longer.

If your baby has day/night confusion (sleeping during day, up during night), then it might help to also feed baby by a sunlit window during the day. Taking baby on day walks during awake times can also help to drive home the day/night idea and help produce melatonin (which I think starts around 12 weeks).

Healthy sleep habits
You want to get your baby into a good sleep rhythm, even if you stay up late. Good sleep is important for your baby's healthy development, and setting her up for healthy sleep habits is a tremendous gift to her. Her bedtime should be somewhere between 6 and 8 (depending on her natural rhythm). If you're putting her down at 6 or afterward, think of it as bedtime, it's no longer a nap. You can create a bedtime routine so she eventually takes cues, and a truncated version for day naps. (Ours is bath, shema while feeding, a short book, saying good night to stuffed animals, turn on noise machine and put baby down awake. Once in crib, I put one hand on baby, and mimic heartbeat taps next to baby on cot for about twenty seconds before leaving.) As written above, once nighttime begins for baby, no more playing, chatting, etc. If baby needs a feed or change, it can be done pleasantly but with minimal light or change to environment.

Put baby down awake
This might be one of those things where I got lucky, but this started working for us somewhere between 12 to 14 weeks. Ime it's much easier to put baby down awake than sneak a sleeping baby into a crib. Start training this early, although our baby was better at this after the fourth trimester.

Night weaning
I think you're supposed to ask a doctor before night weaning, certainly at this age. Before 4 months (and arguably after) some babies still need to wake every few hours to eat. Their stomachs are small, they're still babies! That said, if you do, I've heard about reducing the feeds by 30 seconds each night and seeing how your baby does. Please don't ever go cold turkey because a baby who is used to eating in middle of the night might legitimately be relying on those calories for nourishment.

In the meantime, baby should probably be eating around every 2 to 3 hours. I'd first focus on that and making sure baby is getting full feeds during the day before thinking about tackling the night. You might actually even consider encouraging longer feeds at night (if falling asleep while eating, tap baby, use a wipe on cheek etc.) so that baby doesn't wake as often to snack.

Other notes
Baby loving touch in the fourth trimester is healthy and normal. I'm sure you and DH give her a lot of it!

Our baby doesn't take a paci and drools. What helps are those onesies with built in gloves, so at least the drool isn't all over the crib.

Sometimes a baby needs some space to go to sleep. It's fine if your baby whines a bit when trying to fall asleep. If it's just a few minutes and she's not actually crying, just kvetching a bit, you can give her some space. Babies can't talk and sometimes they make noise while trying to figure out how to get comfortable. We adults also try to get comfortable before going to sleep. My baby used to kvetch for a few minutes before going to sleep so I never let her go to sleep. I was always running to pick her up until once when I went to go to the bathroom and she started kvetching, I was hurrying to get to her, but by the time I got to her two minutes later she was quiet and going to sleep. That's how I learned. Was I doing her a favor by rushing in and depriving her of the chance to fall asleep? Later, when her sleep improved and I learned to catch the sleep window, she barely kvetched at all when falling asleep.

However, some babies, especially when starting, may need more hands on, may need you to shush rock, maybe need you to tap and comfort in bed, may need you to wear them for naps. Do what you need at first, because any kind of sleep is better than no sleep at all.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 8:09 am
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
.


hey, im not sure I quoted your post right- but wow this was SO helpful thanks for taking the time to write it up!

I woke my baby up at 7 today like the book said to get her on a schedule bc I know otherwise she could have slept in... I fed her and by 7:45 she was yawning still... im not sure if thats bc shes tired or bc I woke her up...

how long is the wake window for an almost 11 week old?
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s1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 9:00 am
Cyan what you say is 100% spot on. I have 5 kids and have done pretty much as you said and all of them have slept well. I did like the baby whisperer but I used some bits and not others. Good luck OP, give yourself time to get into the swing of things and enjoy your baby.
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amother




Green
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 9:32 am
Don’t wake your baby in the morning to follow a “schedule “. Respect her need to sleep and when she wakes naturally feed her.
Also cyan very interesting points thanks for taking the time to write that up. I would say that a baby’s best quality of sleep isn’t necessarily a crib as when a baby co-sleeps that can be the best sleep for them. Although sleeping in a crib is definitely better sleep then a swing or car seat, which is something you really want to avoid.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 10:30 am
amother [ Green ] wrote:
Don’t wake your baby in the morning to follow a “schedule “. Respect her need to sleep and when she wakes naturally feed her.
Also cyan very interesting points thanks for taking the time to write that up. I would say that a baby’s best quality of sleep isn’t necessarily a crib as when a baby co-sleeps that can be the best sleep for them. Although sleeping in a crib is definitely better sleep then a swing or car seat, which is something you really want to avoid.


oy I woke her today @7 even though she fell asleep @3.30 am...

the book works on a 3 hr cycle, if my baby is sleeping past the set time, I still let her sleep? I want her to be able to sleep at night

baby ends up in my bed most nights. I enjoy the convenience of cosleeping Surprised

why avoid a swing?
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amother




Cyan
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 11:17 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
hey, im not sure I quoted your post right- but wow this was SO helpful thanks for taking the time to write it up!

I woke my baby up at 7 today like the book said to get her on a schedule bc I know otherwise she could have slept in... I fed her and by 7:45 she was yawning still... im not sure if thats bc shes tired or bc I woke her up...

how long is the wake window for an almost 11 week old?


I think you're following a method I never used and don't know about. My apologies because my advice might confuse you because this method conflicts with what I do.

First, I would never (or rarely) wake a sleeping baby. Clearly that works for some people if this book works for anyone but I personally wouldn't do it. If your newborn baby is sleeping it's because their body needs sleep. Babies do their growing and a lot of mental development in their sleep, so I'd leave them be unless I really couldn't for some reason. Rarely will a baby sleep too much, but I'm not familiar with this method so I can't speak to why someone would wake a baby. I learned a baby should wake any time between 6 to 8 am. Any earlier, try to encourage them back to sleep. If later, enjoy your sleep in. Once they catch up on sleep and start going to bed between 6 and 8 pm, I wouldn't expect them to sleep much. later than 8am.

Re yawning, a baby sometimes yawns not from fatigue when they wake after having a good sleep, but that's immediately on waking. Yawning a half hour later is a tired yawn.

Second, for a newborn I believe the awake window is anywhere from 30 minutes to 1.5 hrs. However, if your baby has sleep debt (which yours probably does) you want to follow the shorter end of that spectrum at least until they catch up, which may take a couple of weeks. After that, go by tired signs, but better a bit early than too late. Before four months, never more than two hours, and unless your baby is doing really well with two hours, make it 1.5 hours or shorter if you see tired signs earlier. After we caught up on sleep, at around 4 ms I was still often putting baby down every hour and fifteen minutes to 1.5 hours. That's what my baby needed. I tried to push to 2 hours and we had trouble so I went back and we were fine.

A separate life hack, putting your baby down 30-45 minutes after waking up. I do that still at 5 months (maybe a full hour at this stage). The reason is that the first morning nap is supposed to be the one that comes easiest to babies. And if you put them down close to when they wake, it's kinda like an extension of their sleep. It's easier for them to master. And if your baby takes a 2- 2.5 hour nap in the morning, you're on track for longer periods of awake time followed by better naps and better sleep. (Once baby wakes, you feed, play, sleep, although sometimes if you're spacing feeds and baby only slept for a half hour you might play, feed, sleep.)

Btw, a lot of things came easier after baby was 12 weeks. Some things are just developmental.
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amother




Cyan
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 11:33 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
oy I woke her today @7 even though she fell asleep @3.30 am...

the book works on a 3 hr cycle, if my baby is sleeping past the set time, I still let her sleep? I want her to be able to sleep at night

baby ends up in my bed most nights. I enjoy the convenience of cosleeping Surprised

why avoid a swing?


Yes, you should let baby sleep. Sleep begets sleep. It might sound counterintuitive, but the more baby sleeps, the more nicely she'll go down to sleep, and better quality sleep she'll get. If you need baby to wake daily at a specific time for some reason I'd still recommend trying to catch baby up on sleep and get them proper naps and proper night sleep at whatever time before trying to shift things to a particular hour.

If cosleeping works for you, make sure you research safe cosleeping practices.

The reason to avoid a swing for sleeping is only because babies get better quality sleep in still quiet environments. You should try to put baby down in their crib (or, as Green mentioned, a safe cosleeping environment). If they absolutely won't go down, a swing might be worth it temporarily, just for that nap, to avoid baby getting even more overtired. But the goal should be sleeping in crib/bed.
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trixx




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 11:38 am
OP listen to cyan. You're taking the book too literally.

Separately, a swing isn't the best for baby's physical development. All they need is time on the floor.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 12:15 pm
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
Yes, you should let baby sleep. Sleep begets sleep. It might sound counterintuitive, but the more baby sleeps, the more nicely she'll go down to sleep, and better quality sleep she'll get. If you need baby to wake daily at a specific time for some reason I'd still recommend trying to catch baby up on sleep and get them proper naps and proper night sleep at whatever time before trying to shift things to a particular hour.

If cosleeping works for you, make sure you research safe cosleeping practices.

The reason to avoid a swing for sleeping is only because babies get better quality sleep in still quiet environments. You should try to put baby down in their crib (or, as Green mentioned, a safe cosleeping environment). If they absolutely won't go down, a swing might be worth it temporarily, just for that nap, to avoid baby getting even more overtired. But the goal should be sleeping in crib/bed.


ok thanks so much
so yesterday she napped nicely from like 9 pm till 12 am but then was up crying until 3:30 am... do babies get overtired?
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:06 pm
how long should my baby nap during the day? she just napped for maybe an hour... little bit less
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English3




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Apr 05 2021, 6:19 pm
Op download the newborn guide from Chaya shifra Sadoff. It helped me it's very clear. 11 week old is usually supposed to go back by 45 min during the day and at night straight after the feed. Your baby can sleep up to 4 hours b4 waking them up. Bnight you leave it as long as it goes.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Apr 06 2021, 12:42 am
English3 wrote:
Op download the newborn guide from Chaya shifra Sadoff. It helped me it's very clear. 11 week old is usually supposed to go back by 45 min during the day and at night straight after the feed. Your baby can sleep up to 4 hours b4 waking them up. Bnight you leave it as long as it goes.


just tried looking for it online and no luck... can u post the link plz?
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tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 06 2021, 1:04 am
That book totally didn’t work for my baby. Just made me feel like I was doing something wrong
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amother




Ivory
 

Post Tue, Apr 06 2021, 5:39 am
amother [ Green ] wrote:
The baby whisperer is really an old and outdated approach. Your baby is an infant still. Feed her when she is hungry and follow her cues. Have a loose routine for the day but most importantly follow your babies cues. Feed her when she is hungry and put her to sleep when she is tired. Try to do a bedtime routine around 7 and keep the room dark where she sleeps so she gets to understand it’s night. When she wakes up in middle of the night, feed her as she is very little still. Let her snuggle and sleep with you, it’s amazing for attachment.
CIO is child abuse so steer clear from that!
Enjoy your baby.

I agree about CIO. The baby whisperer is a different method that does not include crying. It promotes a schedule so they baby knows what to expect when and it includes upping the daytime calories so they need less at night and can sleep through the night. It also includes a “dream feed” so the baby doesn’t wake up or need to be burped or changed and gives a longer stretch. Not sure what’s abusive about any of this.
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SleepingBeauty




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:35 pm
Cyan, if you're comfortable, are you able to pm me, I would love some scheduling advice with my baby.
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amother




Maroon
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:51 pm
The best thing I did for my baby was create a night routine. Bath, dressing in pjs, turning on the sound machine with her, closing the light, sitting down and feeding her while singing to her. Then I put her into her crib.

I did this from 3 months old. Started at about 9pm because that worked for me and by now I start at 7:30-8 because she gets tired earlier.

When/ if she wakes up after this and seems hungry I would feed her in the dark room and put her right back to bed. As she got older I was able to just shush her back to sleep most of the time. She's 7 months old now, I will still feed her occasionally if I think she's hungry.

Please please please do not wake a baby in the morning. I read that advice somewhere and thought it's the most ridiculous thing ever. Let her sleep!
Unless you HAVE to, there's no need to get your baby onto a rigid schedule. If you're both happy, let it be. It's your first. Enjoy it. Stop feeling pressured.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 11:07 am
How would I schedule a 6-7 month old. Going back to work and need to be out by ten. Baby stays home, but need him fed and sleeping most of the time while I'm away.

When should bedtime begin?
How long are awake times supposed to be?
How long are day naps supposed to be?
How many naps during the day?
How long should baby be nursing for each time?
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