How to treat an orphan/story in Ami Living

Chayalle

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:00 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

This is patently false.I’ve worked in schools. My many kids attend schools.
There are yesomim and yesomos in every school. All run with daas Torah
Not one has ever cancelled Inviting mothers to the Chanukah events, mother daughter luncheons, school plays... even though I’m sure it’s painful for those without mothers (and we’re not talking about a 17 year old here)
Every shul with well respected rabbanim including mine has avos ubanim (even if you change the name),
No one has ever cancelled these events and unfortunately they are very painful for a yasom or yesoma

In the school my girls went to (Bais Faiga/Lakewood) they make a mother-daughter lunch after learning Shiras Devorah (5th grade). In a year where a student in the grade does not have a mother, the whole event is cancelled. I know this for a fact, they didn't do it the year before my DD because a student had lost her mother some time before.

I think that it's totally appropriate to cancel in such a situation.

I think inviting mothers to events is different, and can be handled with sensitivity. Perhaps the student can invite an aunt, grandmother, etc...but an event that is specifically mother/daughter should be cancelled.

amother

Black

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:10 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I think it really makes a difference how long ago the death happened and how old the child is. A 12th grader that lost her father 12 years ago should be able to handle the situation better than a 5th grader that had a more recent loss.

Chayalle

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:16 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

I think it depends what the situation is. Perhaps the 12th grader should be given the opportunity to opt out if she's uncomfortable.

B"H I didn't lose a parent as a young child or teen, so I really can't comment on what another person who did experience that should be able to handle.

b.chadash

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:22 pm

When you read the story, you get the sense that the mother feels very much the victim here, like she was wronged by the school and teacher, and that she was 100% in the right.

There was one point where she questions herself, but quickly dismisses the idea that she is overreacting or that her well-adjusted daughter may need therapy.

The ending leaves no doubt that the mother feels totally vindicated, and assumes she has the sympathies of the reader.

And yet, based on the majority of responses here, (even from people in similar circumstances) her handling of the situation does not inspire sympathy in the way she intended..

This is not the message of the story obviously, but nevethelss, it is an interesting takeaway.

Crookshanks

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:22 pm

Chayalle wrote:

That isn't the point though. The point is that the mother didn't ask for that-she went as far as to cancel the entire curriculum for everyone. That's not fair to every other student in the school.

amother

Black

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:32 pm

Chayalle wrote:

The girl has the opportunity to opt out but it isn't enough for the mother. The mother made such a matzav and commotion as if the death happened recently. It's been 12 years since the death and the mother has not allowed to girl to learn how to deal with these situations properly and how do lead a normal life despite the loss. It seems like after 12 years, the mothers life is still wrapped around the loss and she hasn't properly moved on.

amother

Gold

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 1:40 pm

I don't know. as an orphan if there is always a certain event and people look forward to it I would feel guilty knowing that it was cancelled because of me. I also didn't really have a father figure (grandfather, uncle... )that I would have felt comfortable taking the place if it was a father daughter thing which thankfully never came up, so don't know that there is an easy answer

amother

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 2:00 pm

I am asking honestly...I would love to learn the halachos of not paining a widow and orphan.

For every mitzva in the Torah, there are halachic parameters. Where does this begin and end?

Somehow, I cannot imagine that this would have been a story a generation ago. Not that that's ok. There's a column in one of the papers ( I think Hamodia) written by a person who lost his father as a child. The whole column is dedicated to bringing awareness to the sensitivities required in such situations.

And yet, I think it would be enlightening to learn the details of this lav in the Torah.

amother

Peach

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 11:30 pm

Rabbi Menachem Manis Mandel zt"l of Yeshiva of Brooklyn used to come into the plays or occasions when mothers were invited and say, "I am here instead of any parent that is not here." So even a kid whose mother just had a baby or whose father couldn't get off from work felt better. (His wife was niftar when he had small children, the youngest was a baby)

A giant in bein adam lechaveiro

OutATowner

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 11:37 pm

Didn't read all responses here, but I think the key point is the direction of the discussion.
If the topic is how you handle grief, that's fine.
But the examples were other kids saying that people should "get over it" by a certain time. That's hurtful.
Death can be discussed, but it's a teacher job to properly facilitate the discussion.

amother

Brunette

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 11:53 pm

OutATowner wrote:

This
As someone who lost her father at 12 and as a teacher, I think there is no one size fits all answer . These situations need to be dealt with individually and sensitively. Some of the examples in the article were horrifying! [ assigning her to speak about the mitzva of not harming Almana & Yesomim!?!]

If there's even a slight possibility of hurting ANY student, there is no lesson that is justifiably worth hurting someone in front of her peers.
Kol hamivaze chaveiro birabim ain lo chelek lolam habbah!

amother

Indigo

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 11:54 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Speaking as someone who's parent died when they were pretty young, I would be devastated and embarrassed if someone would cancel an annual event because of me. Maybe I'd stay home the day of the event or choose to participate anyway, but to have everyone miss out because of me would be really uncomfortable.
I come from a large family and each one of us siblings processes grief (and emotions in general) very differently, but I'm sure we'd all agree about this.
However, I do agree with the poster who said to change the titles of these events. Instead of mother- daughter lunch, find some title that does not include the word mother or father and use that title EVERY YEAR, not only when there's an orphan in the class.