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Holocaust worse than the churban bayis
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 6:49 pm
My son's math teacher. Who I'm not a fan of for many reasons decided that today he would educate the children on Yom Hashoa as our school doesn't necessarily commemorate that specific day (the boys do get a holocaust education) . He told the boys it is one of the most important days of the year. The holocaust was the worst thing to happen in Jewish History, even worse than the destruction of the Bais Hamikdash. His reasoning being that 6 million Jews were murdered and that is so much more than the lives lost during the churban bayis.

I'm impressed with my son's answer but disturbed by this teacher regardless. "It's not a competition of numbers. We remember the holocaust everyday and also the churban. But Hashem shechinah is in galus and we don't have a baiss hamikdash to serve Him. That's the worst thing that could happen to us"
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tigerwife




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 6:51 pm
That’s a great answer from your son!

How would we know if less than six million Jews were killed during the churban anyway?
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 6:54 pm
tigerwife wrote:
That’s a great answer from your son!

How would we know if less than six million Jews were killed during the churban anyway?


That's what really upset me! This teacher started estimating what the number could have been?!?

I wish he would just stick to math. Count watermelons and not Jewish lives.
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causemommysaid




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 6:54 pm
the churban is the reason the holocaust happened. if we werent in galus, we couldnt have been sent to the gas chambers. any tragedy that happened to jews since the churban only happened because we are in galus so your son is right. it is not a contest. math teachers should stick to teaching math.
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Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 7:01 pm
What a silly comparison. That teacher should learn some Jewish history and read about all the torture, starvation, and murder that the Jews of the Temple eras suffered.

He or she can start by simply reading an english translation of the kinnos.

But I wouldn't say anything to that teacher. The kind of person that makes those types of pronouncements aren't usually interested in being corrected.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 8:35 pm
I don't like going over a teacher's head but if this kind of thing happens more often, maybe speak to the principal.
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amother




Blush
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 8:44 pm
Reality wrote:
What a silly comparison. That teacher should learn some Jewish history and read about all the torture, starvation, and murder that the Jews of the Temple eras suffered.

He or she can start by simply reading an english translation of the kinnos.

But I wouldn't say anything to that teacher. The kind of person that makes those types of pronouncements aren't usually interested in being corrected.

True. The sort of starvation described in Eichah sounds horrific.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:03 pm
amother [ Blush ] wrote:
True. The sort of starvation described in Eichah sounds horrific.


True. The only thing that could be worse then nazis murdering babies, is mothers eating their own children.
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amother




Papaya
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:14 pm
Wow! I hope you give the administration an earful. That is so messed up.
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amother




Papaya
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:14 pm
But I love you sons answer.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:17 pm
The teacher is an idiot.

You taught your son well. Be Proud.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:22 pm
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
The teacher is an idiot.

You taught your son well. Be Proud.


In some ways it was nice this happened because I can see that he is picking up the good stuff.

I'm just so shocked and peeved that anyone could stand in front of a group of children and compare the two.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:25 pm
I actually give all the credit to his learning mishna yomah in 4tj grade. It brought the baiss hamikdash come to life for him.
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SuperWify




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:34 pm
Your sons answer is great! Kudos to you!!

I believe Josephus said about one million Jews were killed at that time, but keep in mind that was a huge number in proportion to the amount of Jews that there was at that time.

Either way, the tragedy of the destruction of the bhmk was incomparable and according to our rabbis all tragedies afterwards are because we are still in galus. Hence, this is the reason most ultra orthodox rabbis don’t commentate a separate day mourning- rather they mourn all tragedies on tisha bav. Because of the bhmk would be rebuilt we would not have had the Holocaust.
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octopus




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:42 pm
Also keep in mind that in the times of the churban romans killed all our peopl by sword. The streets of e'y ran with Jewish blood. Literally. The gemara talks about it. And it was so much blood it didn't absorb in the soil for years.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 9:54 pm
causemommysaid wrote:
the churban is the reason the holocaust happened. if we werent in galus, we couldnt have been sent to the gas chambers. any tragedy that happened to jews since the churban only happened because we are in galus so your son is right. it is not a contest. math teachers should stick to teaching math.


I heard that this is the correct answer.

While maybe 1 million Jews were killed in the churban and 6 million were killed in the Holocaust,
the Churban IS the cause of the Holocaust.

ALL tragedies that we suffer in golus is the result of the Churban - as this is the source of all tzoros.

That is why the Rabbonim were against establishing a separate day for the Holocaust, feeling that
Tisha B'Av is the proper day to remember the Holocaust and all the other tragedies of golus.
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tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Apr 07 2021, 11:42 pm
I don’t think it’s the worst thing for kids to hear different opinions about this or to commemorate Yom hashoah. I also think comparing atrocities and tragedies is bizarre and unproductive . I do think a genocide is different from the churban, the goals were different and many would argue ( at least based on the neviim) that the temple could only be destroyed because it was already corrupt and no longer representative of Gd.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 9:00 am
tichellady wrote:
I don’t think it’s the worst thing for kids to hear different opinions about this or to commemorate Yom hashoah. I also think comparing atrocities and tragedies is bizarre and unproductive . I do think a genocide is different from the churban, the goals were different and many would argue ( at least based on the neviim) that the temple could only be destroyed because it was already corrupt and no longer representative of Gd.


There are two things here: Other opinions, and Yom Hashoah. I'll leave the discomfort with Yom Hashoah (Nissan not a time for hespedim, linking to the kochi v'otzem yadi spin to the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, Tisha B'Av as the time for historical kinnos, etc.) aside.
The other opinions are problematic. I think it's great when limudei chol teachers can find ways to incorporate hashkafa and reinforce important ideas. But it's not for everyone. Some people should not be doing that.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 9:00 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
In some ways it was nice this happened because I can see that he is picking up the good stuff.

I'm just so shocked and peeved that anyone could stand in front of a group of children and compare the two.

You and everyone reading this, even if your post just gets a few likes.
And ditto being impressed with your son. Kol hakavod!
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 9:08 am
SuperWify wrote:
Your sons answer is great! Kudos to you!!

I believe Josephus said about one million Jews were killed at that time, but keep in mind that was a huge number in proportion to the amount of Jews that there was at that time.

Either way, the tragedy of the destruction of the bhmk was incomparable and according to our rabbis all tragedies afterwards are because we are still in galus. Hence, this is the reason most ultra orthodox rabbis don’t commentate a separate day mourning- rather they mourn all tragedies on tisha bav. Because of the bhmk would be rebuilt we would not have had the Holocaust.


I have actually read that Josephus's numbers are vastly underreported.

Read Leibel Resnick's books on the holocaust.

OP, I believe your son's teacher is ignorant of the real numbers of people who were killed during the Churban (and it's aftermath).
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