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S\o amazing jobs chassidish men do without education
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 11:51 am
sky wrote:
That is true. But I find many chassidish girls stop working once they have kids - or a few (sorry to stereotype). While yeshivish women often keep working.


Because yeshivish men want to stay in learning for longer and even when they do go out to work, they often don't take jobs chassidish men would take.
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ShishKabob




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 11:53 am
mommy3b2c wrote:
So you took an accurate poll of all jews and of the successful businesses the largest percentage were owned by chassidish men?

Of course that’s not true. And if it was there’d be no way for you to know because you never took a poll.
True what you're saying. However, in the tri state area I think there are loads of businesses owned by chassidim. I'm not saying percentages because I don't know them, but you just have to open the Upstate Directory or The Consumer Advisor to get a picture of it.
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butterfly2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 11:54 am
gande wrote:
There are some, not many. Most are not willing to invest so much years and money. They would rather put 100k in real estate if they have it. Also it is not a common aspiration. But there are many medical geniuses who help others in the community. Take Chaim Jalas for an example, he learned genetics on youtube! He is highly respected by the top doctors and included in medical journals.

That is very true
They may not be doctors but there are many in the Medical field and extremely knowledgeable and have helped many with crucial advice.
They are individuals as well as organizations (RCCS, Bonei Olam, A Time just to name a few were all founded by Chasidish people)
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Alternative




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 11:59 am
clowny wrote:
We once had this conversation in our family that turned into a very heated argument.
The fact is that most very successful businesses are owned by chassidshe guys coming out of yeshiva, where the only thing they learned was 1-2 hours a day of English classes that consisted of simple math and spelling. Most got married at age 18-20 and obviously had zero education.
I don’t see the ones who have a good education and/or college degree etc. doing any better than the typical chassidish guy that I described above.


The typical chassidish guy earns more than people with a good education and a college degree?

Interesting. Last I checked Kiryat Joel was one of the poorest places in the states, with the highest number of people taking government support. Are they not typical chassidish?
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butterfly2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:00 pm
Alternative wrote:
The typical chassidish guy earns more than people with a good education and a college degree?

Interesting. Last I checked Kiryat Joel was one of the poorest places in the states, with the highest number of people taking government support. Are they not typical chassidish?

I believe A large factor of why they hit the poverty level is the family sizes.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:01 pm
So, a lot of you are advocating learning online, using the internet, even YouTube tutorials.

How are these guys getting access to computers? If they can't read or write English, how are they going to get an online degree, or do any research? What if their filters block out half of what they need to know?

What if the neighbors find out they have a computer! Then nobody's kids will be allowed to play at your house.
============================================================

Edited for clarity. When I said "guys", I meant "boys", as in kids trying to get a high school education and a diploma.

Why else would I worry about other people's kids coming over to play? Did you honestly think that I was talking about married men playing with the neighbor kids? Rolling Eyes

Apparently reading comprehension is not taught in school, either.


Last edited by FranticFrummie on Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
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butterfly2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:02 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
So, a lot of you are advocating learning online, using the internet, even YouTube tutorials.

How are these guys getting access to computers? If they can't read or write English, how are they going to get an online degree, or do any research? What if their filters block out half of what they need to know?

What if the neighbors find out they have a computer! Then nobody's kids will be allowed to play at your house.

Did you ever have a normal conversation with a Chasidish person to discuss this without attacking them and being judgemental.
Computers for work purposes were never banned in case that isn’t obvious
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moonstone




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:02 pm
ShishKabob wrote:
True what you're saying. However, in the tri state area I think there are loads of businesses owned by chassidim. I'm not saying percentages because I don't know them, but you just have to open the Upstate Directory or The Consumer Advisor to get a picture of it.


Are most of their customers also chassidim? Again, I have no idea, just wondering.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:05 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
Can you explain why learning things like Shakespeare is important? Or why Aristotle is more significant than Talmud (which teaches ethics btw)?

I will also add that there are many talented chasidishe musicians, singers and chefs all without taking music or cooking classes in yeshiva so clearly there was no need for the entire yeshiva to waste time on that either. If you have the talent for something then its up to your family to nurture it, not the school.


If you don't find value in literature, then you won't value learning Shakespeare. I think Hashem gave us literature, in the same way that he gave us art, and mountains, and oceans. He wants us to appreciate all of it.

I didn't say that Aristotle is "more significant" than Talmud. But Aristotle is significant. You posit "either or." I posit both.

I believe that one of the purposes of education is to open doors and make things available; to help each child discovery their own interests and talents. You mention music. A yeshiva bochur learns the basics of music through prayer, trope, davening and leyning. He may expand that interest. But if he had never heard music, if each prayer were recited without melody, if the Torah and Haftarah were recited not chanted, if he never heard music, would he ever be interested in it?

I was raised entirely secular, but had a very decent Jewish education. Not yeshiva level, of course, but decent. My parents insisted on this because they believed that all education is important; because they believed in opening doors. So do I.
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monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:05 pm
Alternative wrote:
The typical chassidish guy earns more than people with a good education and a college degree?

Interesting. Last I checked Kiryat Joel was one of the poorest places in the states, with the highest number of people taking government support. Are they not typical chassidish?

They also have larger families so not sure if you can use KJ as an example (especially if many work off the books in order to collect govt benefits or even qualify for govt assistance working on the books but having large families which skews the statistics as well). Secular people who are doctors or lawyers dont tend to have big families (and many start their families later in life once they are settled in their careers) so its not comparable to KJ.
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:06 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
So, a lot of you are advocating learning online, using the internet, even YouTube tutorials.

How are these guys getting access to computers? If they can't read or write English, how are they going to get an online degree, or do any research? What if their filters block out half of what they need to know?

What if the neighbors find out they have a computer! Then nobody's kids will be allowed to play at your house.


Would you stop with your chassidim mocking? It's really not nice. It's acceptable to have a computer and internet access for work. They make sure the filter doesn't block what they need to know. Computers were never banned.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:08 pm
butterfly2 wrote:
Did you ever have a normal conversation with a Chasidish person to discuss this without attacking them and being judgemental.
Computers for work purposes were never banned in case that isn’t obvious


FF, however, isn't discussing use of computers for business. She's asking about the permissibility of use of computers by children for educational purposes.

Would it be acceptable for a Chassidish family to own 2 or 3 home computers, and for their children to spend 90 minutes a day on online math, English and science education?
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:08 pm
moonstone wrote:
Are most of their customers also chassidim? Again, I have no idea, just wondering.


Not necessarily. Many businesses in the tri state are owned by chassidim and they have all types of clientele. Jews & non jews.
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:10 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
FF, however, isn't discussing use of computers for business. She's asking about the permissibility of use of computers by children for educational purposes.

Would it be acceptable for a Chassidish family to own 2 or 3 home computers, and for their children to spend 90 minutes a day on online math, English and science education?


If the computer is filtered, then yes, it's acceptable. (Depending on the circles of course.)
But I can see many people preferring books and educational toys/games over screen time. I think kids learn better with books and games. Computers were never an issue. Unfiltered internet is the issue.
It also doesn't make sense for kids to be spending 90 minutes a day learning after they come home from school. Between coming home late, homework, dinner, there isn't much time and patience left for learning.


Last edited by Blessing1 on Thu, Apr 08 2021, 4:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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butterfly2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:10 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
FF, however, isn't discussing use of computers for business. She's asking about the permissibility of use of computers by children for educational purposes.

Would it be acceptable for a Chassidish family to own 2 or 3 home computers, and for their children to spend 90 minutes a day on online math, English and science education?

I didn’t see any mention of kids anywhere.
I believe she is referring to the men attending online trade schools etc which is what we are discussing here
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:10 pm
ShishKabob wrote:
True what you're saying. However, in the tri state area I think there are loads of businesses owned by chassidim. I'm not saying percentages because I don't know them, but you just have to open the Upstate Directory or The Consumer Advisor to get a picture of it.


Absolutely. There are many, many successful and even fabulously wealthy chassidim. Jews in general are smart, serious and hard working.


However, that doesn’t make what’s happening in the yeshivas right. It’s really not ok.
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:11 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
FF, however, isn't discussing use of computers for business. She's asking about the permissibility of use of computers by children for educational purposes.

Would it be acceptable for a Chassidish family to own 2 or 3 home computers, and for their children to spend 90 minutes a day on online math, English and science education?


No, she asked how the guys have computer access for work. She was not talking about children.
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Genius




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:11 pm
Marketing
Graphic design
Video productions
Writing
Store owners/managers/workers
Distributors

I believe in education. I do not believe that a good education is a ticket to financial success. I believe there is room for improvement in our school system. I do not believe that that is any of the government’s business. Not until they take care of their own problems in problematic public school. I believe people have choices. They can choose to send their kids to a school they approve of. If the matzev in the chassidisha schools bothers them so much that they can’t sleep at night, they should take it up with the people who are in charge of those schools. Going to the government to tattle on your own kind is not menschlich and anti Torah. End rant.
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:12 pm
mommy3b2c wrote:
Absolutely. There are many, many successful and even fabulously wealthy chassidim. Jews in general are smart, serious and hard working.


However, that doesn’t make what’s happening in the yeshivas right. It’s really not ok.


Right. It's 2 different discussions.
Bh chassidish men can be very successful despite their poor secular education.
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flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:12 pm
A nice chunk of Amazon sells are from the heimishe zip code. Just saying.....
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