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S/o fat shaming. Poll re size to see what average REALLY is
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Poll

What size do you wear?
0-2 or below  
 6%  [ 41 ]
4-6  
 19%  [ 131 ]
8-10  
 19%  [ 127 ]
10-12  
 18%  [ 119 ]
14-16  
 15%  [ 105 ]
16-18 or above  
 20%  [ 137 ]
Total Votes : 660


amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 4:16 pm
amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:
Obviously there are reasons 🤷🏼‍♀️ maybe someone with a clothing line or store can chip in.
I do know of a clothing line that won’t sell to certain stores that aren’t up to their “standards” so it might be the same thing.


Yup, we've said it already. The "reasons" are that they want to be exclusive. And they don't want to ch"v tarnish their brand or stores with "less attractive" aka larger women wearing their stuff. So they just sell the smaller sizes. And the rest of us? Can go find some garbage bags to wear.


Which is once again, DISGUSTING.

They get away with it because fat bias is so ingrained and it's considered ok to cater to less than half the population.

That's all there is to it.
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amother




Slateblue
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 4:31 pm
Feeling like southern bubby's comments are just that same self righteous, fat shaming attitude that we are all used to. I joined this conversation expecting it to be a safe space, but now I know better. We just need to understand and accept that we are second class citizens who don't deserve to find our sizes alongside the properly sized ones.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 4:37 pm
amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:
Feeling like southern bubby's comments are just that same self righteous, fat shaming attitude that we are all used to. I joined this conversation expecting it to be a safe space, but now I know better. We just need to understand and accept that we are second class citizens who don't deserve to find our sizes alongside the properly sized ones.


I am sorry that you feel that way. Stores that only sell small sizes are not fat shaming. They are fairly selling to a market that they can reach.
If you want stores and manufacturers to focus on your needs, let them know. They won't know unless you do that that you expect every size of every style on every rack.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 4:39 pm
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
Honestly I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Which store doesn't want to enlarge their income by 20%? Wouldn't YOU want a 20% raise in income?


Maybe they would incur a loss.
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amother




Coffee
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 4:41 pm
southernbubby wrote:
I am sorry that you feel that way. Stores that only sell small sizes are not fat shaming. They are fairly selling to a market that they can reach.
If you want stores and manufacturers to focus on your needs, let them know. They won't know unless you do that that you expect every size of every style on every rack.


Southernbubby look at the poll. 25% are size 6 and under, also not a majority, yet stores have no problem selling those sizes. Size 16 and up are a good 20%, according to this poll. That's a huge market segment that's not bring tapped. Why do you think they sell smaller sizes and not bigger sizes? Of course it's all about their image. How can you even argue that?
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amother




Seafoam
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 4:42 pm
amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:
Feeling like southern bubby's comments are just that same self righteous, fat shaming attitude that we are all used to. I joined this conversation expecting it to be a safe space, but now I know better. We just need to understand and accept that we are second class citizens who don't deserve to find our sizes alongside the properly sized ones.


Yes.
Like I said, I'm the OP of the original post.
After someone commented something about the Covid vaccine being unnecessary for those under 55. Even obese because it can be managed with "proper diet and exercise".
So I started my post.
This poster started this one to see just how many "plus size" women exist.
Turns out it's 20%. But that's not enough to exist.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 4:42 pm
As economic theorists say, stores and factories are not run by homo economicus. The people who run them sometimes make bad decisions.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 4:43 pm
amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:
Obviously there are reasons 🤷🏼‍♀️ maybe someone with a clothing line or store can chip in.
I do know of a clothing line that won’t sell to certain stores that aren’t up to their “standards” so it might be the same thing.


My daughter used to have a clothing store and larger plus sizes didn't sell. People have to know that a store has it but most manufacturers sell a package of a style in a range of sizes and some of them won't sell. Plus sizes might be packaged together with several plus sizes so size 18 or 20 might sell but the store is stuck with the rest.
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amother




Seagreen
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 4:46 pm
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
I hear you. How do you hide it? I need some tips. I wear shapewear but maybe you do something else? Ty!! Thumbs Up


Hi! Smile
I don't wear tight fitted clothing because of tznius, but that also helps here.
I wear tips and skirts.
My tops are either longish, like long cardigans or a shell with a sleeveless loose top over it, or the style that exploded this past year or so, the tops that blouse and then gather around the waist.

I don't wear shapewear, besides for a good bra. Probably need a new one. I'm something like size 34G, minimizer, and when I wear my old36DDD tshirt (padded) bra,I cringe. I see the difference.
My good bra is from myself in lakewood, they were so patient with the fitting; my old one was from Macy's.
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funkyfrummom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 5:13 pm
I did not read entire thread, so someone probably already pointed this out, but size 10 was also in the poll twice, too.

American sizes are usually most often as follows (basing this on when I worked as a retail softlines manager for about a decade when I was younger).

Misses Sizes:
0-2 - extra small
4-6 - small
8-10 - medium
12-14 - large
16-18 - XL
20-22 - XXL

Plus Sizes:
14W - 0X
16W-18W - 1X
20W-22W - 2X
24W-26W - 3X

These sizes are all bigger than they used to be ("vanity sizing").
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 5:23 pm
amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:
Hi! Smile
I don't wear tight fitted clothing because of tznius, but that also helps here.
I wear tips and skirts.
My tops are either longish, like long cardigans or a shell with a sleeveless loose top over it, or the style that exploded this past year or so, the tops that blouse and then gather around the waist.

I don't wear shapewear, besides for a good bra. Probably need a new one. I'm something like size 34G, minimizer, and when I wear my old36DDD tshirt (padded) bra,I cringe. I see the difference.
My good bra is from myself in lakewood, they were so patient with the fitting; my old one was from Macy's.


You sort of made my point. A bra fitter who was dedicated to selling you something that you feel good about yourself in trumps a store that simply puts it on the sales floor. They specialize in giving you the proper fit and I was trying to say that larger women might get better fit, selection, and service than they would get if their size was competing with space on the rack with small sizes. But hey, if I don't consider stores to be guilty of fat shaming then I am guilty of fat shaming because the fashion and beauty forum is supposed to be a safe space and I failed to read the fine print.
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amother




Seafoam
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 5:26 pm
funkyfrummom wrote:
I did not read entire thread, so someone probably already pointed this out, but size 10 was also in the poll twice, too.

American sizes are usually most often as follows (basing this on when I worked as a retail softlines manager for about a decade when I was younger).

Misses Sizes:
0-2 - extra small
4-6 - small
8-10 - medium
12-14 - large
16-18 - XL
20-22 - XXL

Plus Sizes:
14W - 0X
16W-18W - 1X
20W-22W - 2X
24W-26W - 3X

These sizes are all bigger than they used to be ("vanity sizing").


But the difference between a 16 and a 16W is huge.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 5:33 pm
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
Southernbubby look at the poll. 25% are size 6 and under, also not a majority, yet stores have no problem selling those sizes. Size 16 and up are a good 20%, according to this poll. That's a huge market segment that's not bring tapped. Why do you think they sell smaller sizes and not bigger sizes? Of course it's all about their image. How can you even argue that?


There's no question, and its hardly limited to stores serving the frum market.

Leslie Jones is a beautiful woman (IMNSHO), who wears a size 10/12. But no designer wanted to dress her for the Ghostbusters premiere. Too "large." Christian Siriano was the only one who stepped up. He's said that if you're a designer, you should be able to make every woman look beautiful, not just the tiny ones.

Stores pretend that they're expanding their size selection by stocking a single top in a 1X, then if women don't flock to the store to grab that single item, saying that there's "no market."

Look at the average clearance rack. Tons of XS, no XL. Because the XL sell out.
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amother




Plum
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 5:43 pm
Full disclaimer: I did not read all six pages...

As a current size 18/20, I sometimes feel like screaming from the rooftops: I have really good taste, trust me! Just cuz I can't wear the really nice clothing myself....

That being said, I do appreciate the few Jewish stores that are so helpful and welcoming, regardless of my large size..

I was just at exquisite on New Utrecht. (Boro Park) All of her lines she created go up to a size 18/20. I was trying on dresses along side the skinny minny next to me. Dassi was super helpful and nice. Treating for my taste, not my size. Will definitely go back.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 5:51 pm
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
Southernbubby look at the poll. 25% are size 6 and under, also not a majority, yet stores have no problem selling those sizes. Size 16 and up are a good 20%, according to this poll. That's a huge market segment that's not bring tapped. Why do you think they sell smaller sizes and not bigger sizes? Of course it's all about their image. How can you even argue that?


In the stores in Monsey that I have shopped in, I have seen very few size 0 to 2 but there is a fair amount of XS. I agree that large sizes are an underserved market but the question is who is supposed to serve them.
A large part is image but part of that is that what looks good in a size 4 will not look good in a size 24 and sometimes the person will do better with something designed for that size. If they walk out of the store looking unattractive, the store will get bad name.

And if it's all about image, whose fault is that? Maybe we should blame the women who won't shop in stores that sell large sizes rather than blaming the stores who cater to them.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 5:53 pm
It's not actually true that people look better in different styles based on size. It's somewhat true based on shape.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 5:56 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
There's no question, and its hardly limited to stores serving the frum market.

Leslie Jones is a beautiful woman (IMNSHO), who wears a size 10/12. But no designer wanted to dress her for the Ghostbusters premiere. Too "large." Christian Siriano was the only one who stepped up. He's said that if you're a designer, you should be able to make every woman look beautiful, not just the tiny ones.

Stores pretend that they're expanding their size selection by stocking a single top in a 1X, then if women don't flock to the store to grab that single item, saying that there's "no market."

Look at the average clearance rack. Tons of XS, no XL. Because the XL sell out.


Target has lots of clearance on both ends of the size range and I see more big stuff than small stuff but that might just be my luck and everyone else walks in and finds the XS that they can't wear and the store is out of XL. Those chain stores try harder to accommodate bigger sizes then maybe the frum stores do.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 5:59 pm
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
It's not actually true that people look better in different styles based on size. It's somewhat true based on shape.


Designers for large sizes pay attention to shape. People probably come out better when the clothing fits their shape.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 6:01 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
Full disclaimer: I did not read all six pages...

As a current size 18/20, I sometimes feel like screaming from the rooftops: I have really good taste, trust me! Just cuz I can't wear the really nice clothing myself....

That being said, I do appreciate the few Jewish stores that are so helpful and welcoming, regardless of my large size..

I was just at exquisite on New Utrecht. (Boro Park) All of her lines she created go up to a size 18/20. I was trying on dresses along side the skinny minny next to me. Dassi was super helpful and nice. Treating for my taste, not my size. Will definitely go back.


That's great but some here are upset that these stores don't stock size 24 and therefore must be engaged in fat shaming.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 6:34 pm
southernbubby wrote:
You sort of made my point. A bra fitter who was dedicated to selling you something that you feel good about yourself in trumps a store that simply puts it on the sales floor. They specialize in giving you the proper fit and I was trying to say that larger women might get better fit, selection, and service than they would get if their size was competing with space on the rack with small sizes. But hey, if I don't consider stores to be guilty of fat shaming then I am guilty of fat shaming because the fashion and beauty forum is supposed to be a safe space and I failed to read the fine print.


Nope. No one said that.
It has been discouraging to see you try to defend the stores and companies and put the blame on us bigger bigger people.

It feels very invalidating and hurtful because we get this attitude an awful lot in real life, and this is exactly what perpetuates the problems.

I think if you'd take the time to really listen, on a deeper level and try to understand the pain that is that you need to turn heaven and earth, often getting burnt in the process just to find something nice to wear for shul, for work, for college... for anything, you'd start to get it. Maybe.

It's not that the fashion and beauty forum is supposed to be a safe space for us. Aren't we Jews supposed to be sensitive to the plight of others regardless of which forum?

We have so much shame already for the way we are. We don't need more when we are specifically sharing the painful things. And it feels to me like you just don't want to get it, because while you have valid points, you are very dismissive in your posts.
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