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Forum -> Fashion and Beauty
S/o fat shaming. Poll re size to see what average REALLY is
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What size do you wear?
0-2 or below  
 6%  [ 41 ]
4-6  
 19%  [ 132 ]
8-10  
 19%  [ 127 ]
10-12  
 18%  [ 120 ]
14-16  
 15%  [ 106 ]
16-18 or above  
 20%  [ 137 ]
Total Votes : 663



amother
Seafoam


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 11:53 am
southernbubby wrote:
Because of this thread, I looked at the sizes when I was at Walmart this morning and they sell up to size 3X. There are some companies on board with that.
People need to let stores know why they don't shop there and maybe they will start to respond. I don't think that people avoid stores that have bigger sizes as long as they are trendy and it's hard to get trendy with the really big sizes (not talking about 18-20).


SB, it feels like you're missing the point.
I was a 14/16 as a teen. My choice was to squeeze myself into a 14 for Shabbos that was closer to a 12 or allow my mother to take me to Lane Bryant.
My 15 year old daughter is a size 16 now.
She wants to be regular. When she goes to school Shabbos, she wants to say that her outfit was from Junees or Brooklyn Southwest or whatever. She doesn't want to be the girl who's forced to wear an atypical outfit from Walmart because that's all that fits her.
I'm not talking 3x, 4x, 5x. I'm talking 16, 18, 20, 22, 24.
Shout out to Periwinkle in Lakewood that carries up to 22/24.
Yes it's expensive.
But that's not the point. At least I can give my daughter the ability to feel confident in her body and not feel punished.
And I wish more stores did this. I'm talking classic black straight skirt. Carry to 20- don't stop at 14. The cute dresses that girls are wearing Shabbos nowadays are a style that can work for heavier teens (at least as well as they work for lighter ones). So why don't stores carry.
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:05 pm
Estis in lakewood carries some dresses in bigger sizes, if you dont see one in the style you want she can sometimes (re)order for you.
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:08 pm
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
Estis in lakewood carries some dresses in bigger sizes, if you dont see one in the style you want she can sometimes (re)order for you.


And then do you have to take it?
I had a different store that I was begging them to bring in some cute teen dresses in a 16 and 18.
They said they would only order it if I prepaid.
Yeah. No. My daughter is going to need to try it on and decide.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:14 pm
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
And yet there is no problem finding sizes 0 to 6, yet our stores generally do not carry 16+. And it's a similar percentage of women. I wonder why that is?

(I agree it's all about their image).


But most posters agree that there are stores that stock merchandise at both ends of the spectrum. Maybe someone should check the clearance racks in those stores to see what merchandise is left after a season. I once went to Ruthie's to look for deals and the only stuff on the clearance racks were size 2X.
I wanted to buy a dress pattern at Walmart and it started at a bigger size than I wear. The frustrating thing to me is that the advertising is deceptive. If the pattern starts at size 10 or 12, the picture in the catalog should be of someone who wears that size. If there is no stigma to wearing a bigger size, then advertising should reflect that.
Somebody should start a truth in advertising campaign. The average person who buys from the Haband catalog I mentioned upthread is probably older (the stuff is elderly friendly), bigger, and poorer (the stuff is very cheap) so why are the models young, skinny, beautiful, and mostly white?
I would trust this advertising more if it was more reflective of reality.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:19 pm
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
SB, it feels like you're missing the point.
I was a 14/16 as a teen. My choice was to squeeze myself into a 14 for Shabbos that was closer to a 12 or allow my mother to take me to Lane Bryant.
My 15 year old daughter is a size 16 now.
She wants to be regular. When she goes to school Shabbos, she wants to say that her outfit was from Junees or Brooklyn Southwest or whatever. She doesn't want to be the girl who's forced to wear an atypical outfit from Walmart because that's all that fits her.
I'm not talking 3x, 4x, 5x. I'm talking 16, 18, 20, 22, 24.
Shout out to Periwinkle in Lakewood that carries up to 22/24.
Yes it's expensive.
But that's not the point. At least I can give my daughter the ability to feel confident in her body and not feel punished.
And I wish more stores did this. I'm talking classic black straight skirt. Carry to 20- don't stop at 14. The cute dresses that girls are wearing Shabbos nowadays are a style that can work for heavier teens (at least as well as they work for lighter ones). So why don't stores carry.


But the people who wear 22/24 need to talk to store owners about stocking that size because it might mean dealing with other manufacturers and distributers. I have a granddaughter who is larger size and she always looks fantastic. Some she gets online and some from frum stores.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:32 pm
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
And then do you have to take it?
I had a different store that I was begging them to bring in some cute teen dresses in a 16 and 18.
They said they would only order it if I prepaid.
Yeah. No. My daughter is going to need to try it on and decide.


yeah that's so hard.
Hate doing that, and no way to know how it'll look on.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:35 pm
southernbubby wrote:
But the people who wear 22/24 need to talk to store owners about stocking that size because it might mean dealing with other manufacturers and distributers. I have a granddaughter who is larger size and she always looks fantastic. Some she gets online and some from frum stores.


Looking fantastic doesn't mean that it was easy to get there.
She may have struggled a lot to put together that outfit that a size 6 person would've had way easier. Who knows how many places she searched? How many times she thought she found something only to discover that the biggest size was 2 sizes below?

Yes talking to the stores is important. But it does feel like a fruitless endeavor when we know that it isn't a lack of that size customers but a lack of priorities. It feels demeaning to have to come beg for your size.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:40 pm
southernbubby wrote:
But most posters agree that there are stores that stock merchandise at both ends of the spectrum. Maybe someone should check the clearance racks in those stores to see what merchandise is left after a season. I once went to Ruthie's to look for deals and the only stuff on the clearance racks were size 2X.
I wanted to buy a dress pattern at Walmart and it started at a bigger size than I wear. The frustrating thing to me is that the advertising is deceptive. If the pattern starts at size 10 or 12, the picture in the catalog should be of someone who wears that size. If there is no stigma to wearing a bigger size, then advertising should reflect that.
Somebody should start a truth in advertising campaign. The average person who buys from the Haband catalog I mentioned upthread is probably older (the stuff is elderly friendly), bigger, and poorer (the stuff is very cheap) so why are the models young, skinny, beautiful, and mostly white?
I would trust this advertising more if it was more reflective of reality.


there are some stores. Very few and far between.
We're talking about Jewish stores here. Not Walmart.
Your one experience in Ruthie's doesn't prove much over the countless awful, degrading experiences women are sharing here and on the other thread and elsewhere.

Believe us.

We'd rather have an easy time shopping. We'd rather go to one or two stores on the avenue and be able to pick out a new piece easily without having to worry about "is it worth it? will they even have a pretty thing in my size? Will that one or 2 things in my size be something I actually like? Will I have to yet again ask the saleswoman if this comes in a bigger size, only to have her shake her head, sometimes smugly, no? Will I leave these stores wanting to cry? Hide myself? Hide my body?"

If you don't have this struggle you will not understand. The least you can do is believe us about our difficult experiences when it comes to shopping and just getting decent clothing to wear.

And I agree with you that unrealistic advertising is an issue as well, but that's for another discussion.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:44 pm
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
SB, it feels like you're missing the point.
I was a 14/16 as a teen. My choice was to squeeze myself into a 14 for Shabbos that was closer to a 12 or allow my mother to take me to Lane Bryant.
My 15 year old daughter is a size 16 now.
She wants to be regular. When she goes to school Shabbos, she wants to say that her outfit was from Junees or Brooklyn Southwest or whatever. She doesn't want to be the girl who's forced to wear an atypical outfit from Walmart because that's all that fits her.
I'm not talking 3x, 4x, 5x. I'm talking 16, 18, 20, 22, 24.
Shout out to Periwinkle in Lakewood that carries up to 22/24.
Yes it's expensive.
But that's not the point. At least I can give my daughter the ability to feel confident in her body and not feel punished.
And I wish more stores did this. I'm talking classic black straight skirt. Carry to 20- don't stop at 14. The cute dresses that girls are wearing Shabbos nowadays are a style that can work for heavier teens (at least as well as they work for lighter ones). So why don't stores carry.


Kudos to you for being there for your daughter.

It feels especially heartbreaking when kids are subjected to this. They get the message at such a tender age that their size matters above all else. It's so sad and awful.

I remember as a teen, I was about a size 14 and I sucked in my stomach whenever I tried something on in a store, because I knew that I was in the upper limit sizing of the stores and I was so embarrassed.

It makes me so sad to think of that. A young beautiful high school girl feeling so ashamed in her body because the options in the store suggest that she is one in a million.
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:47 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
there are some stores. Very few and far between.
We're talking about Jewish stores here. Not Walmart.
Your one experience in Ruthie's doesn't prove much over the countless awful, degrading experiences women are sharing here and on the other thread and elsewhere.

Believe us.

We'd rather have an easy time shopping. We'd rather go to one or two stores on the avenue and be able to pick out a new piece easily without having to worry about "is it worth it? will they even have a pretty thing in my size? Will that one or 2 things in my size be something I actually like? Will I have to yet again ask the saleswoman if this comes in a bigger size, only to have her shake her head, sometimes smugly, no? Will I leave these stores wanting to cry? Hide myself? Hide my body?"

If you don't have this struggle you will not understand. The least you can do is believe us about our difficult experiences when it comes to shopping and just getting decent clothing to wear.

And I agree with you that unrealistic advertising is an issue as well, but that's for another discussion.


When the saleslady pushes you to take something truly awful looking because "it's the only thing in your size" and "heavier women can't afford to be picky".
When you feel like everyone else in the store is looking at you in horror and judging the lack of "self control to just lose that 30/40 lbs" and you feel disgust at yourself like them.
And you leave the store and you're starving, but you won't allow yourself to buy a coffee and you see all these size 4s enjoying lattes and donuts, but you're fat and don't deserve it.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:50 pm
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
When the saleslady pushes you to take something truly awful looking because "it's the only thing in your size" and "heavier women can't afford to be picky".
When you feel like everyone else in the store is looking at you in horror and judging the lack of "self control to just lose that 30/40 lbs" and you feel disgust at yourself like them.
And you leave the store and you're starving, but you won't allow yourself to buy a coffee and you see all these size 4s enjoying lattes and donuts, but you're fat and don't deserve it.


Wow that sounds absolutely horrific.

For me, it is bad enough trying on item after item and not being able to size up (because they don't make the darn skirt any bigger!) And walking out with nothing but feeling like a fat pig.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:54 pm
A 3X is a 22 and a 2X is an 18 to 20.

I hear all of you that it's an exercise in frustration and it would of course be nice if everyone could enjoy the same clothes regardless of size and shop in the same stores.
Somebody should ask store owners why they don't care about larger sizes since it seems like the posters here are not looking for bargains; they just want a selection.
I once asked a Crown Heights kids clothing store owner why his stuff was so expensive when so many people were poor and he said that even the poorest people don't want junk. Many of his customers are poor.
I wonder if there's a reason that we don't know about because according to the poll, at least one in five shoppers wears a 16 or above so I wonder why that group is being overlooked.
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 12:56 pm
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
Wow that sounds absolutely horrific.

For me, it is bad enough trying on item after item and not being able to size up (because they don't make the darn skirt any bigger!) And walking out with nothing but feeling like a fat pig.


Yeah well.
They're just trying to motivate us for our own good
Everyone knows that being too heavy is unhealthy so they can't make it too "comfortable" for us to stay our size.
There needs to be some kind of penalty pushing us to make changes to our lifestyle.

SouthernBubby, I'm sorry. But your comments really do seem to have that mentality laced in.
That you'll love someone who's larger, but it shouldn't be too convenient or easy for them to stay that size.
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amother
Coffee


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 1:15 pm
southernbubby wrote:
A 3X is a 22 and a 2X is an 18 to 20.

I hear all of you that it's an exercise in frustration and it would of course be nice if everyone could enjoy the same clothes regardless of size and shop in the same stores.
Somebody should ask store owners why they don't care about larger sizes since it seems like the posters here are not looking for bargains; they just want a selection.
I once asked a Crown Heights kids clothing store owner why his stuff was so expensive when so many people were poor and he said that even the poorest people don't want junk. Many of his customers are poor.
I wonder if there's a reason that we don't know about because according to the poll, at least one in five shoppers wears a 16 or above so I wonder why that group is being overlooked.


I'm an 18 to 20 in the frum stores (sometimes even size 22) but I fit into XL in the non Jewish stores. So maybe not.
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amother
Seashell


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 1:25 pm
Teens shop in the women’s stores too. They tend to size on average smaller but weren’t included in this poll. I find many of the frum local stores generally cater to the teen and young/trendy crowds. The stores carrying larger sizes are usually “nebbier and “frumpier “. It really is hard to shop locally if you aren’t “young and thin”.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 1:29 pm
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
Yeah well.
They're just trying to motivate us for our own good
Everyone knows that being too heavy is unhealthy so they can't make it too "comfortable" for us to stay our size.
There needs to be some kind of penalty pushing us to make changes to our lifestyle.

SouthernBubby, I'm sorry. But your comments really do seem to have that mentality laced in.
That you'll love someone who's larger, but it shouldn't be too convenient or easy for them to stay that size.


To me it's like saying that there are no affordable houses in the neighborhood and someone needs to solve the problem because everyone wants a nice home in the neighborhood or there is no room for a child in camp and someone needs to be responsible for every child who doesn't have a place. That someone is all of us.
And meanwhile, what is the person who has the complaint doing to resolve the issue? We are simply putting the responsibility on someone else and that person is not even aware that they are the problem.
Obviously the public must either make the stores and manufacturers more aware or they must go into business themselves. I am aware that it sounds harsh but there must be a reason why businesses are unresponsive. Image is one part of it but maybe the larger customer is pickier because she is trying harder to make a style that was designed for a smaller person work for her.
I don't think that inclusivity comes without awakening the public to the need for it.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 1:30 pm
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
When the saleslady pushes you to take something truly awful looking because "it's the only thing in your size" and "heavier women can't afford to be picky".
When you feel like everyone else in the store is looking at you in horror and judging the lack of "self control to just lose that 30/40 lbs" and you feel disgust at yourself like them.
And you leave the store and you're starving, but you won't allow yourself to buy a coffee and you see all these size 4s enjoying lattes and donuts, but you're fat and don't deserve it.


Sometimes I hate people. Actually, today I hate the world.

The response to that peddler -- she doesn't deserve to be called a salesperson -- should be "heavier women have every right to beautiful, well made clothing, and I'm willing to spend on it. But my money will be going elsewhere." And I hope that people like that work on the commission they won't be getting from me.

I'm a 14/16. I buy a lot of Ann Taylor / Ann Taylor Factory (not quite AT quality, but very decent at a fraction of the price). I also stare at this dress online about twice a day, but I can't justify it, not only because of the neckline, but also because I work at home and don't dress up. https://www.ullapopken.com/en/.....-1007
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 1:40 pm
I have found that in Frum stores most of the clearance rack is small and extra small.
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 1:44 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Sometimes I hate people. Actually, today I hate the world.

The response to that peddler -- she doesn't deserve to be called a salesperson -- should be "heavier women have every right to beautiful, well made clothing, and I'm willing to spend on it. But my money will be going elsewhere." And I hope that people like that work on the commission they won't be getting from me.

I'm a 14/16. I buy a lot of Ann Taylor / Ann Taylor Factory (not quite AT quality, but very decent at a fraction of the price). I also stare at this dress online about twice a day, but I can't justify it, not only because of the neckline, but also because I work at home and don't dress up. https://www.ullapopken.com/en/.....-1007


Like I said, I was pushed to buy "old lady swing suits" from Lane Bryant at 17. And I was horribly traumatized by that.
I'd like to give my high school daughter the ability to go to "regular" Lakewood stores and buy similar styles to what her friends are wearing.
When she goes to Shabbaton or meets up with friends, she doesn't want to have to mumble that her outfit was purchased at the big and fat store.

And I've asked stores. They've said that *they are an exclusive store and not a place for shlumpy fat clothing*. They had no answer when I said to buy the nice fat clothing.
Bh, there are a few stores that accommodate and I shop there and publicly tell them and others.
Periwinkle in Lakewood
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, Apr 13 2021, 1:50 pm
My DD is an 18 and I have found clothes in Clover that look good on her, Burgundy does carry tops that size. Any other places-Lakewood
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