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I miss going to Israel
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 5:57 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
If the whole of Israel is vaccinated then they have immunity no? So if someone shows up unvaccinated how does that spark an outbreak?

Israel is taking care of their citizens who can not be vaccinated; children and others who fall into that category.
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byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 5:58 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
If the whole of Israel is vaccinated then they have immunity no? So if someone shows up unvaccinated how does that spark an outbreak?


Only 6 million out of 9 million are vaccinated - you need 90% for herd immunity
Children are not vaccinated at all
There is also the fear of mutations that are less responsive to the vaccine being brought in

Regardless you don't have a "right" to travel anywhere. If you want to visit vaccinate, if not stay home. No one is infringing on your rights,
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 5:59 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
If the whole of Israel is vaccinated then they have immunity no? So if someone shows up unvaccinated how does that spark an outbreak?
The whole of Israel is not vaccinated. The majority yes, but the whole entire nation will never be vaccinated. So israel has to do whatever it is that they must do in order to keep their citizens safe from another outbreak.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 6:12 am
byisrael wrote:
Only 6 million out of 9 million are vaccinated - you need 90% for herd immunity
Children are not vaccinated at all
There is also the fear of mutations that are less responsive to the vaccine being brought in

Regardless you don't have a "right" to travel anywhere. If you want to visit vaccinate, if not stay home. No one is infringing on your rights,


This.
If we've learned one thing about this virus it's that you can't be complacent.
We paid dearly for the complacency that followed the first lockdown last year and the fact that b"h we are where we are now is only due to the success of the government's aggressive vaccination strategy.
However, there is always the fear of new strains that might be resistant to the vaccine and also no firm knowledge of the the vaccine's long-term efficacy.
While we do need to resuscitate the tourism industry, we have to be very careful with regard to how we go about doing it.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 6:20 am
It sounds like a never ending cycle. New strains will get through the vaccines. So that mean israelis cannot really travel or live freely anyway.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 6:23 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
It sounds like a never ending cycle. New strains will get through the vaccines. So that mean israelis cannot really travel or live freely anyway.
Israelis can travel. Its non citizens that cant enter.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 6:26 am
There is just a lot of magiah li when it comes to covid. Israel can make their own laws. The end.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 6:39 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Israelis can travel. Its non citizens that cant enter.


And bring back a new strain that their vax doesn't cover?

I know non citizens cannot enter (I'm a citizen anyway)

I just don't understand the logic.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 6:41 am
watergirl wrote:
There is just a lot of magiah li when it comes to covid. Israel can make their own laws. The end.


Of course israel can make its own laws. And others are allowed to question and even challenge it. There are even Israelis themselves who don't see the logic to all this.
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juggling




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 8:41 am
Just pointing out, unrelated to covid or vaccines. An Israeli who wants to visit the US as a tourist needs to apply for a visa. This predates corona. Just pointing it out, for those Americans who think they have a "right" to visit Israel. Israelis have no such right when it comes to visiting the USA.
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doctorima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 8:55 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
Of course israel can make its own laws. And others are allowed to question and even challenge it.


Sure, they can feel free to challenge it - from America! You don't have to like the rules or agree with them or understand them, but if you want to visit the country, you've got to play by their rules, and if you don't want to play by their rules, you're welcome to stay home and kvetch about them here.

Just like I'm a vaccinated American, but if I leave the US and want to come back, I have to get a negative COVID test within 72 hours of my flight. Instead of sticking a syringe in my arm, they're making me stick a swab in my nose, but that's the cost of public health during a pandemic.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 9:07 am
watergirl wrote:
There is just a lot of magiah li when it comes to covid. Israel can make their own laws. The end.

1) I may understand it but it doesn't mean I like it.

2) For many/most Jews, even if we don't live in Israel, it still feels like OUR country. It's not like not being able to go tour the Eiffel Tower. It's being rejected from home. It hurts, even if it's the right thing.

3) Wishing not to have extreme pressure to make a medical decision that comes with risks is not "magia li."

4) In a certain sense, all Jews DO feel that "magia li" to come to our own country. And even if we don't actually allow them to for whatever reason, we should be HAPPY about that attitude.
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 9:42 am
amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

2) For many/most Jews, even if we don't live in Israel, it still feels like OUR country. It's not like not being able to go tour the Eiffel Tower. It's being rejected from home. It hurts, even if it's the right thing.


You are very welcome to come and live here.

You're not being rejected - you are being asked to contribute to the health of our country. Either by choosing to vaccinate, or to stay away and not put our children at increased risk. Either way it is a privilege to be able to make that contribution. How you go about it is your choice.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 9:48 am
amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:
1) I may understand it but it doesn't mean I like it.

2) For many/most Jews, even if we don't live in Israel, it still feels like OUR country. It's not like not being able to go tour the Eiffel Tower. It's being rejected from home. It hurts, even if it's the right thing.

3) Wishing not to have extreme pressure to make a medical decision that comes with risks is not "magia li."

4) In a certain sense, all Jews DO feel that "magia li" to come to our own country. And even if we don't actually allow them to for whatever reason, we should be HAPPY about that attitude.


It is our land and our promise, but we all know that until Moshiach comes, we are bound to the rules of the current government. The vaccination policy, if it exists (as opposed to a 2 week quarantine, I'm not sure what the law is at the moment) is not rejecting anyone from their home. You can go, you just have to abide by the rules. It is a self-imposed rejection. I hear you, you don't have to like it.
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Sesame




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 10:08 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
And bring back a new strain that their vax doesn't cover?

I know non citizens cannot enter (I'm a citizen anyway)

I just don't understand the logic.


If you’re a citizen what’s the use of all these comments?!?? No good can come from it.
If you can’t understand the logic, speak to a medical professional. It’s not hard to understand why a country would turn away non citizens....
Anyway there are rules for those entering including Israelis, they don’t just come in freely with no precautions
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 10:25 am
amother [ Cerise ] wrote:
This is where forced vaccines comes in.
Eventually we won’t be allowed to do anything without the Covid vax....
communism.


Could you explain what mandating the covid vaccine has to do with government ownership of business and land?

At present, Israel permits visitors, but requires quarantine. You need to show a negative covid test within 72 hours prior to travel, then quarantine for 10 days. At present, vaccination status is irrelevant. That's being changed to eliminate the quarantine for vaccinated persons. But you can still feel free to quarantine, as I understand it.

Countries are permitted to protect their own citizens. Eg, the US -- a day late and a dollar short -- circumscribed travel of non-citizens from China early in the pandemic. Was that also "communism"?
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 10:37 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Could you explain what mandating the covid vaccine has to do with government ownership of business and land?

At present, Israel permits visitors, but requires quarantine. You need to show a negative covid test within 72 hours prior to travel, then quarantine for 10 days. At present, vaccination status is irrelevant. That's being changed to eliminate the quarantine for vaccinated persons. But you can still feel free to quarantine, as I understand it.

Countries are permitted to protect their own citizens. Eg, the US -- a day late and a dollar short -- circumscribed travel of non-citizens from China early in the pandemic. Was that also "communism"?

Yes and no. Only first-degree family members of Israelis are permitted to enter the country right now. For them - they are special pre-approved cases, and it requires paperwork from both sides - vaccination status doesn't matter, but they do need to test and quarantine.

However, they are not the ones helping the economy, for the most part.

Non-Israelis who do not have first-degree relatives who are Israeli citizens living in Israel are not currently permitted to enter the country. On May 23, they will be allowed to do so - IF they are both part of an organized group AND vaccinated, and they will still be required to test for corona prior to boarding the plane AND upon landing, and do a serology test upon landing.

Non-vaccinated non-Israelis who don't have first-degree relatives in Israel are not currently allowed to enter the country. Which suits us Israelis perfectly well, honestly.
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amother
Green


 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 11:04 am
We miss you too; not sure if there ever has been a time like this with no tourists for so long...
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 11:17 am
amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:
1) I may understand it but it doesn't mean I like it.

2) For many/most Jews, even if we don't live in Israel, it still feels like OUR country. It's not like not being able to go tour the Eiffel Tower. It's being rejected from home. It hurts, even if it's the right thing.

3) Wishing not to have extreme pressure to make a medical decision that comes with risks is not "magia li."

4) In a certain sense, all Jews DO feel that "magia li" to come to our own country. And even if we don't actually allow them to for whatever reason, we should be HAPPY about that attitude.

"Extreme pressure"? Please. Some perspective is welcome
Having a bad day or just enjoy kvetching?
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Wed, Apr 14 2021, 11:18 am
amother [ Khaki ] wrote:
Non-vaccinated non-Israelis who don't have first-degree relatives in Israel are not currently allowed to enter the country. Which suits us Israelis perfectly well, honestly.

Thanks, that makes me feel really good.

(FTR, I have close to zero chance of exposure. Not everyone unvaccinated is a carrier. I understand although I don't like the rule, but your implication that I would deliberately put others at risk is unfair and misplaced.)
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