Son wants to know how do we know HaShem is real

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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amother

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:01 am

He’s 13 and at this age you can’t just regale them with pretty stories. He’s quite a serious boy. I don’t want to mess him up, I’m scared I’ll say the wrong thing. Please Help with answers, resources etc

amother

Green

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:06 am

First off tell him that it’s a great question. Even Avraham Avinu had to figure it out. It’s ok to ask. And there are great answers. If you don’t feel qualified to answer ask a rav or a Talmid Chacham to talk to him about it. It’s not a one sentence answer.

Chayalle

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:09 am

Excellent question.

It says so in the Torah. By Har Sinai, Hashem revealed Himself to Shishim Riboi of people, who all passed this down to us, till today.

Unlike some other religions that are based on the testimony of one person who claimed to have a revelation in a dream or other episode, the Giluy Shechinah at Maamad Har Sinai was simultaneously experienced by a tremendous multitude of people, all bearing the exact same testimony, and recorded for all time.

amother

Orange

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:17 am

Do we know, or do we believe?

sequoia

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:19 am

We exist.

Chayalle

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:20 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Do we know, or do we believe?

We KNOW.

That's one of the fundamentals of yiddishkeit. There are tons of pesukim that use this term - yediah - knowing. Not just believing.

"v'yodata hayom...ki Hashem Hu Elokim"

"Atoh Horaisa LoDaas Ki Hashem Hu HaElokim Ein Od Milvado"

Elfrida

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:22 am

It's called emunah.

You can find circumstantial evidence. You can't find scientific proof.

There are books discussing it. Permission to Believe is one, and there are probably more. They're aimed at the Baal Teshuva market, but there's no reason why he shouldn't read them.

Ultimately there is a point where we have to let go of science and human comprehension and just believe.

Petra

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:27 am

My DS had those exact same questions and also very intellectual and questioning. He was told to read the Permission To series. He did. Didn't help.

I've struggled from time to time with the same question. In the end I prefer to believe. Questioning gets me nowhere and I'm unhappy. Every day can be different in regards to my conviction.

amother

Linen

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:28 am

so nice he felt comfortable to ask
Just a few of the ideas I’ve heard:
The Torah lists the amount of kosher species (if I’m not mistaken, perhaps specific amount of a certain species. Anyone know for sure?) never has one more type been found since the Torah was written. That’s not something someone could have made up thousands of years ago
Shmitta hashem promises in the Torah plentiful in the 6th year. If the Torah didn’t come from God, no human could guarantee something like that!
We were at bar Sinai when hashem gave us the Torah. The Torah says that hashem gave our ancestors the Torah at har Sinai. If that were untrue, wouldn’t one person have turned around and said “hey that’s not true, we weren’t there!”
אנחנו מאמינים בני מאמינים
I would go to a rav to ask what to say...

amother

Pink

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:29 am

sequoia wrote:

We exist.

I don’t know how anyone alive on Planet Eath can not believe in a God. Maybe they won’t like what He says. But how could this world have made itself??

hodeez

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:31 am

If he's serious, have him read the book Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, or the coming revolution, or Rav Miller's the universe testifies. Maybe he is just bored of being frum and wants to branch out, and this is his excuse. Get to the bottom of it and then you can see how to help him.

amother

Navy

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:32 am

Because if you look at the intricacies of science and nature, you must accept that there is a Creator. There is no other reasonable option.

sequoia

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 11:41 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

I don’t know how anyone alive on Planet Eath can not believe in a God. Maybe they won’t like what He says. But how could this world have made itself??

I meant Jews, that we haven’t dissolved in other peoples.

70-1948 is a long time.

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 1:53 pm

We don't know. We believe. For me I believe because this world and the people in it had to have a creator who is all knowing and all powerful and eternal. There is no something from nothing.

amother

Blue

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 2:35 pm

The Prussian Emperor Friederich (Frederick) the Great once asked General Ziethen to give him proof that G-d exists, in one sentence. The General thought about it briefly and then anwered "Your majesty, the Jews!".
This anecdote has been recorded in
historic non-Jewish writings.
Not sure if it helps your son, but it is something to think about.

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 2:51 pm

Maybe buy him a book on the topic (I don't have any recommendations, sorry).

Rising

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 3:31 pm

Reason to Believe by Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb
Books by Rabbi Tatz
Ramchal’s Derech Hashem - there are some great English translations.
I like the one by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan
What the Angel Taught You by Rabbi Noach Weinberg - that should be on his age level
You could also have him read the Kuzari and/ Moreh Nevuchim.
They each have two totally different approaches to Emunah. The Rambam approaches it from outside in, the Kuzari from the inside out.
Nineteen Letters by Rabbi Shamshon Rafael Hirsch.
I also recently read “The intellect and the Exodus” by Rabbi Jeremy Kahan. I would recommend that as well.

Emuna is easier for some people.
Emuna comes from the shoresh truth/ loyalty. It’s more than belief.
But it’s a deeper type of knowing than what we might typically define “knowing” as.
Personally, I believe this knowing is something you need to experience and it usually it takes Emunah to the next level.

But we all have a chiyuv of Emunah regardless. It’s not black and white. There are different levels.

I remember one Rabbi saying something like the following, “ with a lot of things we know, we are taking a small leap of faith. We are taking all the evidence that exists and reaching the most probable conclusion”.

Rising

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 3:35 pm

Also Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan’s Ani Maamin.

When I get home, I’m going to try and check for more recommendations.
There’s so much out there with fantastic translations.

There are definitely answers.

Twinster

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 3:38 pm

I think there are two parts to this question:

1) Is God real?
2) Is the Torah (Judaism) God’s word?

It’s too much to write here, but I’d suggest you first research a bit before answering. Or have him read/listen/watch some talks on this topic. Especially regarding the creation of Time, Space and Matter (which Hashem is beyond, and created).

Rabbi YY Jacobson has a series on the Basics of Emunah if you’d let him listen/watch.

English3

Thu, Apr 15 2021, 3:44 pm

Rabbi mekanik has a great series I think on Torah any time

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