Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
Son wants to know how do we know HaShem is real
Previous  1  2  3



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 11:48 am
sequoia wrote:
There’s plenty of contradiction in our scriptures as well.

Like midrash is often the opposite of pshat.


Contradictions, this is where Torah sheb'al peh comes in.
I have heard that we have far fewer discrepancies in our Scriptures as handed down through the generations and in different locations, in quantity and quality, than other religions' texts.
Back to top

amother
Azure


 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 12:25 pm
Rising wrote:
At what point in history do you suggest this fantastic story could have been made up and sold to a group of people as truth? Especially to a group of people as argumentative and opinionated as the Jews, lol.

If one person would have made it up don’t you think we’d have record of the person who told the story of 600,000 people who God revealed Himself to, 600,000 people seeing sounds and hearing sights?

This argument may not be foolproof but it definitely holds water, even if you are coming from the perspective where you are assuming the Torah is not true.

Generally in the Bible scholar community Ezra is considered to be the one who made it up. Since he “found” the Torah that everyone seemed to have forgotten.
Back to top

amother
Cobalt


 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 12:35 pm
Op, a part of me has the same question.

I was reading an article written after the passing of Rabi Avrohom Twerski. The author of the article said that he was struggling with religion and had many doubts and questions. He came to rabbi twerski for some guidance. He says rabbi twerski told him that to believe in god is crazy. But to not believe in god is also crazy.
Back to top

Rising




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 10:29 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
Generally in the Bible scholar community Ezra is considered to be the one who made it up. Since he “found” the Torah that everyone seemed to have forgotten.



First of all, many scholars say it was Yoshiyahu.

But either way both are academic hypotheses that many would take issue with, even not within the frum world.

Both are hypotheses that don’t make sense when considering the context of the events that took place then.

1. The Torah was already in the hands of the Samaritans by the time Ezra came around. And the Samaritans did not hold of Ezra. Their Torah is virtually the same as ours aside from a few minor changes.

2. I don’t think it’s disputed that at the very least most of Tehilim was written by Dovid.
And Dovid references the Torah in Tehilim numerous times.

3. I believe even among biblical scholars it’s widely undisputed that Breishis, Shemos and Bamidbar date back way earlier.

4. For Ezra to have “invented” the Torah he would need to have made up events that were so recent in history for his audience that they could have been easily disputed if not true.

5. The Jews in exile at the time were keeping the Torah.

(One more point- our mesorah does not put Ezra in that role.
The argument would be that a person of such consequence would occupy a more prominent place in Jewish education etc.
And although Ezra is remembered for enforcing Jewish law in Jerusalem, preventing intermarriage etc. he is not remembered as the one who introduced the Torah.)
Back to top

amother
Denim


 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 12:17 am
I have the same question as your son but not enough courage to actually go ask someone Sad
I honestly don't think any Rabbi will be able to give me enough proof or an answer that will satisfy me anyway.
Going to read through all the responses that you got here because I'm curious what others have suggested to you.
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:49 am
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
I have the same question as your son but not enough courage to actually go ask someone Sad
I honestly don't think any Rabbi will be able to give me enough proof or an answer that will satisfy me anyway.
Going to read through all the responses that you got here because I'm curious what others have suggested to you.


I've just started to read Princess Without a Crown, by Jenny Maio (it was in Ami). She was also told in Neve that there isn't 100% proof but more than enough reasonable evidence to make a choice to believe.
I'm not saying it's easy, but am saying that really smart people out there have made this choice. And they have published works and shiurim. Rabbi Tatz, Rabbi Kelemen, Rabbi Gottlieb, others. And they may be accessible for specific questions, Idk.
Oh, and Rabbi Breitowitz. And others.
Back to top

amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 11:08 am
amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:
Op, a part of me has the same question.

I was reading an article written after the passing of Rabi Avrohom Twerski. The author of the article said that he was struggling with religion and had many doubts and questions. He came to rabbi twerski for some guidance. He says rabbi twerski told him that to believe in god is crazy. But to not believe in god is also crazy.

This article was very helpful to me.

I have a dc who is struggling very much with faith, mostly as a result of people's actions.

I shared this article with them. Rabbi Twerski was not disingenuous and that article helps address the fact that doubt is part of faith and intellectually honest people struggle with faith too.

OP, if your ds is an intellectual, or if he may become one as he gets older, please please DONT send him the kiruv route for answers.

I'm happy to see Nvei via an earlier poster that has an intellectually honest approach today.
Back to top

amother
Papaya


 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 11:19 am
Ken Spiro has some great lectures on this (you can find on YouTube). From a historical perspective, he notes that any ancient archeological finds in the middle east absolutely back up things written in the Torah. And, as he says, archeologists have barely scratched the surface when it comes to excavations in Israel itself.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 7:55 pm
As I see it—feel free to disagree—the KBH designed things so that there would never be rational incontrovertible scientific proof of His existence, but only the possibility of deducing His existence from His creations. The existence of creation implies a Creator, but that is not proof.

And why is there no proof? Because if there were incontrovertible proof, there would be no challenge or hardship to believe, no temptation not to believe, and indeed there would be no such thing as faith. You don’t have faith that if you jump off a roof you will fall to the ground or if you stick a knife in your chest you will bleed—you know it, everyone knows it and nobody’s going to give you a medal for that.
Back to top

miami85




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:05 pm
Depending on his level, I don't know if this answer helps. One cannot PROVE Hashem exists, but if you look for Him you will see His guidance and feel that it was Hashem helping along the way. It's not always EASY but it comes with time and patience and willingness to see it.
Back to top

Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 10:36 pm
Sometimes the simplest answer is the best. We serve Hashem and know He's real because He took our ancestors out of mitzrayim.

We know this happened because it was passed down in our family (if geirim then amend accordingly)
Back to top
Page 3 of 3 Previous  1  2  3 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Baby girl names with Hashem's name in it
by amother
18 Today at 3:42 am View last post
S/O budgets. Amazon, Real Estate, struggling businesses
by amother
2 Yesterday at 12:15 pm View last post
My son is infuriating and miserable to be around
by amother
28 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 3:42 pm View last post
Dd wants ds to be punished
by amother
67 Thu, Mar 21 2024, 1:33 pm View last post
What to write on son's rebbi thank you card??
by amother
3 Thu, Mar 21 2024, 12:16 am View last post