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My house is a war zone and it eats me up
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amother




OP
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 2:44 pm
The sibling rivalry from toddler to teens is so out of hand. I really don’t know what to do anymore. I can’t understand why there’s so much hate, anger, nastiness towards each other when
A- DH and I bh have a great shalom bayis
B- DH and I each have a great relationship with each child
Why oh why can’t they get along and stop bickering for once? They are literally being so mean I can’t watch it! My constant reminders for all of them to stop obviously falls on deaf ears. Ignoring it doesn’t help either. What else is in my power to do before I go completely crazy? I’m wondering what this means for their psyche. They are technically growing up in a war zone even though their parents get along wonderfully. I feel bad for each of them. It’s just not pleasant for anybody this way. Help me please!
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amother




Navy
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 2:56 pm
hugs!
establish and enforce consequences to make your home livable for yourself at least
hatzlocha!
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amother




Tan
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 2:56 pm
My method is if you cannot treat each other nicely then you cannot spend time together. I would "forbid" them from the same room(s) / floor (s). They got bored. It helped them learn the advantages and privleges of having sisters/brothers. It also showed them the value of shalom bayis , that they feel happier and better when things are peaceful in the house. I helped them learn to communicate assertively and effectively about problems they encounter with each other.
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amother




Teal
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:06 pm
I could have written this exact post. We have a great relationship with each other and with each individual child. But they can't stop destroying each other, they are physically and emotionally cruel to each other. It makes me cry.
Today, we had all the kids in the car and I literally got out with 1 kid and walked the last few blocks home cuz they were being so mean to that kid.
I just can't take it anymore and I have no idea what to do.
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amother




Salmon
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:06 pm
Op I could have written this post. One of my daughters is literally bullied by her siblings. I stick up for her and show her love to boost her up, but consequences to the older one fall on deaf ears.

Amother tan can you please do you thing in my house until my kids live in harmony? Please? Maybe they’ll listen to someone else other than me...
What do you do if the kid refused to listen when being sent to their room?
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tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:08 pm
Perhaps family therapy is worth exploring
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amother




OP
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:09 pm
amother [ Teal ] wrote:
I could have written this exact post. We have a great relationship with each other and with each individual child. But they can't stop destroying each other, they are physically and emotionally cruel to each other. It makes me cry.
Today, we had all the kids in the car and I literally got out with 1 kid and walked the last few blocks home cuz they were being so mean to that kid.
I just can't take it anymore and I have no idea what to do.

The car is the worst! Disaster zone!
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amother




Tan
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:11 pm
I should put a disclaimer; I grew up in the environment OP describes. I have zero tolerance for it as a result. It traumatized me as a child. I lose it if they act that way which is why I stop it. I cannot handle reliving it. But all of my siblings have their children living under the same general environment as we grew up in, as OP describes.
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amother




Linen
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:11 pm
I worry about this too.
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amother




OP
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:29 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
I should put a disclaimer; I grew up in the environment OP describes. I have zero tolerance for it as a result. It traumatized me as a child. I lose it if they act that way which is why I stop it. I cannot handle reliving it. But all of my siblings have their children living under the same general environment as we grew up in, as OP describes.

How on earth do you stop it? Nothing I do to try to stop it helps. It’s impossible to supervise all day that they shouldn’t be in the same rooms. My house is not that big.
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amother




Aqua
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:32 pm
What's the discipline like in your house? Have you given them immediate consequences?
I think there is a lot of bullying going on in the world in general and it's affecting every single child. I don't think any of us can escape it.
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amother




Pink
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:35 pm
Heart Heart Heart what a tough situation to be in.
I think you might benefit from some parenting classes from a real expert as well as some family therapy sessions.
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amother




Navy
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:39 pm
any bullying gets a loss of a privilege marked and clear in advance
any kindness gets a reward marked and clear in advance
0 tolerance policy
everyone has the right to feel safe in their own home

if they think its like a toddler sticker chart you can tell them when they mature then they outgrow it
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:40 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
How on earth do you stop it? Nothing I do to try to stop it helps. It’s impossible to supervise all day that they shouldn’t be in the same rooms. My house is not that big.


This.

I really am convinced that my kids are giving one another PTSD with physical and emotional violence.

They will not stay in separate spaces no matter what I do. It’s like they’re drawn to one another by magnets.

We tried family therapy, but sweet well-meaning young social workers never accomplished any change in the dynamic. If I hear one more person suggest a “sticker chart” or “enforce consequences”, I will demand they come to my house and fix it themselves. No one-hour-a-week family board game or arts and crafts session in your office is gonna help us, Julie. I need a live-in therapist.
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amother




OP
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:42 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
This.

I really am convinced that my kids are giving one another PTSD with physical and emotional violence.

They will not stay in separate spaces no matter what I do. It’s like they’re drawn to one another by magnets.

We tried family therapy, but sweet well-meaning young social workers never accomplished any change in the dynamic. If I hear one more person suggest a “sticker chart” or “enforce consequences”, I will demand they come to my house and fix it themselves. No one-hour-a-week family board game or arts and crafts session in your office is gonna help us, Julie. I need a live-in therapist.

Yup yup Can't Believe It
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amother




Burgundy
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:47 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
This.

I really am convinced that my kids are giving one another PTSD with physical and emotional violence.

They will not stay in separate spaces no matter what I do. It’s like they’re drawn to one another by magnets.

We tried family therapy, but sweet well-meaning young social workers never accomplished any change in the dynamic. If I hear one more person suggest a “sticker chart” or “enforce consequences”, I will demand they come to my house and fix it themselves. No one-hour-a-week family board game or arts and crafts session in your office is gonna help us, Julie. I need a live-in therapist.

If they don't stay in their room, they lose a privilege. Take away an hour of screen time, they don't get dessert, no trip to the store, etc. If they scream and cry, too bad. This is the rule. Eventually they will learn.

What privileges can you take away in your house?
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:50 pm
amother [ Navy ] wrote:
any bullying gets a loss of a privilege marked and clear in advance
any kindness gets a reward marked and clear in advance
0 tolerance policy
everyone has the right to feel safe in their own home

if they think its like a toddler sticker chart you can tell them when they mature then they outgrow it


You make it sound so clear cut and easy!!! I wish I had thought of that 🤣

Every sibling feels their grievances are justified.
“I am bothered by the fact that my brother is an idiot!”
“She cries like a baby, so of course I tell her to shut up!”

I’ve had tweens tell me, “you’re a terrible mother! If you don’t punish [sibling they disagree with], then I will!”

if I were to punish every infraction, I would have no time left for anything else. That would be the entirety of my relationship with my children, and eventually I would run out of meaningful consequences because THEY JUST WON’T STOP.

And when the punished child has nothing left to lose, they HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE and only get more angry and violent. Maybe the behavior will stop in the moment, maybe, but the underlying sibling rivalry and hatred of parents for the perceived injustice and tyrannical authority will just simmer until the next explosion.

Also, I can only be in one place at a time, and my kids will bring up unseen-to-me incidents to justify their vengeance, and then I’m left as the moderator, judge and jury.
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amother




Aqua
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:59 pm
For those that nothing they do stops it. Have you looked into reasons for the behavior? I'll throw a worse case scenario out there... an uncle s-xually abusing them? Perhaps they are reacting to a current trauma in their lives and it's not something you are aware of?
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amother




OP
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 3:59 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
You make it sound so clear cut and easy!!!

Every sibling feels their grievances are justified.
“I am bothered by the fact that my brother is an idiot!”
“She cries like a baby, so of course I tell her to shut up!”

I’ve had tweens tell me, “you’re a terrible mother! If you don’t punish [sibling they disagree with], then I will!”

if I were to punish every infraction, I would have no time left for anything else. That would be the entirety of my relationship with my children, and eventually I would run out of meaningful consequences because THEY JUST WON’T STOP.

And when the punished child has nothing left to lose, they HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE and only get more angry and violent. Maybe the behavior will stop in the moment, maybe, but the underlying sibling rivalry and hatred of parents for the perceived injustice and tyrannical authority will just simmer until the next explosion.

Also, I can only be in one place at a time, and my kids will bring up unseen-to-me incidents to justify their vengeance, and then I’m left as the moderator, judge and jury.

Yes exactly this. They all feel the other one is at fault. “Of course I’m nasty to him because he breathed near me! All his fault!”
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amother




Pink
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 4:00 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
You make it sound so clear cut and easy!!!

Every sibling feels their grievances are justified.
“I am bothered by the fact that my brother is an idiot!”
“She cries like a baby, so of course I tell her to shut up!”

I’ve had tweens tell me, “you’re a terrible mother! If you don’t punish [sibling they disagree with], then I will!”

if I were to punish every infraction, I would have no time left for anything else. That would be the entirety of my relationship with my children, and eventually I would run out of meaningful consequences because THEY JUST WON’T STOP.

And when the punished child has nothing left to lose, they HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE and only get more angry and violent. Maybe the behavior will stop in the moment, maybe, but the underlying sibling rivalry and hatred of parents for the perceived injustice and tyrannical authority will just simmer until the next explosion.

Also, I can only be in one place at a time, and my kids will bring up unseen-to-me incidents to justify their vengeance, and then I’m left as the moderator, judge and jury.


Maybe you should try to take away their current privileges cold turkey (like no screen time for anyone at all, no video games, Shabbos treats....) and firmly say something like "there will be no more screen time in this house at all till you learn to get along."
You can also takea away phones, ipods... any special thing they have. They need to see that you're very firm and serious with it. It will be very very hard in the beginning, but if the kids see you won't break and you mean serious business, maybe they'll get the message.
You said family therapy didn't help. Have you tried individual therapy for each child on their own? Maybe they need to be evaluated by a child psychologist or behavioral therapist.
Hugs & lots of luck.
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