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Threatening not to go to school or day camp
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 8:56 pm
My preteen daughter is upset at my husband and I about the shoes she got for spring. We first bought a pair that she later developed buyers remorse and managed to return when she decided they were not fashionable at all. I then ordered a pair of congac leather loafers that are more stylish. She agrees to wear those in school now but claims that they are not what girls will be wearing to day camp in the summer. If she doesn't get a different pair for day camp she is threatening not to go, and even is going so far as to threaten to stay home from school as well. Originally we had considered buying her a cheap pair of sneakers for day camp in addition but after this ultimatum I don't know how to react. Honestly, the shoes she has are congac leather loafers which I have tried to convince her will be neutral and can match black or denim too. I have tried to reason with her about the situation and I don't want to give in now just because she thinks these shoes are nebby. It has become something of a power struggle between us. Her using day camp and school attendance as leverage and is infuriating. I need to find a solution to this power struggle without it looking as though we gave in because of her threats. Please help.
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Notsobusy




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:01 pm
She's probably right that most girls won't be wearing loafers to day camp. I would leave it alone for a little, tell her you'll discuss it again after Shavuos or in the beginning of June. At that point you can make a deal with her. If you do xyz, we will buy you the sneakers everyone is wearing up to $____.
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hodeez




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:03 pm
Good let her stay home with a broom and mop, see how long it lasts. If I ever tried that shtick with my mother ooooofff would I regret it!
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:08 pm
I did bring up the idea of her doing things to earn the sneakers and possibly just showing an effort to improve in other areas in her life that her behavior is lacking. I will have to table the discussion but each time we discuss it and she threatens these things my blood pressure goes up and I can't handle the lack of derech eretz. None of my other kids would dare threaten us like she does. She never could deal with us telling her what to do and her not being in control or getting her own way. She is the oldest
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ra_mom




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:08 pm
Sit down with her and have a real conversation. Find out why the sneakers are so important to her. You never know what a deep dive might bring out. Maybe she is getting picked on. Maybe that doesn't change your mind about a 2nd pair. But you can step into her shoes and really feel what she's feeling. You'll be able to empathize with her.

Just really communicate, find out what's really going on, and empathize.

If you want to get her the sneakers after all, you can always say, I see how important this is to you. I'm sad that you felt the need to threaten. But I feel what you're feeling, and will get you sneakers closer to the summer. But please tell me your needs and what you're feeling next time. You're so big and we can have these good conversations together, like this.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:11 pm
hodeez wrote:
Good let her stay home with a broom and mop, see how long it lasts. If I ever tried that shtick with my mother ooooofff would I regret it!

I tried to act like those threats don't scare me and that I doubt she would find staying home too exciting every day. She then says it's not a threat...she was s just telling me what will happen cuz she won't go to day camp wearing them and be embarrassed.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:18 pm
ra_mom wrote:
Sit down with her and have a real conversation. Find out why the sneakers are so important to her. You never know what a deep dive might bring out. Maybe she is getting picked on. Maybe that doesn't change your mind about a 2nd pair. But you can step into her shoes and really feel what she's feeling. You'll be able to empathize with her.

Just really communicate, find out what's really going on, and empathize.

If you want to get her the sneakers after all, you can always say, I see how important this is to you. I'm sad that you felt the need to threaten. But I feel what you're feeling, and will get you sneakers closer to the summer. But please tell me your needs and what you're feeling next time. You're so big and we can have these good conversations together, like this.

Thanks for your reply. In truth I did have a long conversation with her about it. She doesn't want to be different, which I understand. On the other hand I allowed her to return the first pair of shoes which would have worked out better for both day camp and school before buying these loafers. Even before we finalized on them, she was having doubts and we even went back to see if we could rebuy the first pair that we started off with. They are sold out. She wore the loafer around the house already so I don't feel like it's right to return them. Yet to spend more money on a second pair of footwear in addition irks me especially after this ultimatum and history of the first purchase. At first we may look like mean parents who can't sympathize with a preteen and peer pressure but how much do we have to give in?
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amother




Ecru
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:29 pm
hodeez wrote:
Good let her stay home with a broom and mop, see how long it lasts. If I ever tried that shtick with my mother ooooofff would I regret it!

Practically speaking, what would she do with a 12 y old you? Make you clean daily? Leave you on your own to entertain yourself? Why would you regret it?
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imasinger




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:32 pm
I think you were on the right track with having her earn them.

She'll probably respond more positively if you show her a concrete list of options, and ask her which chores she'd like to pick. Hearing about a nebulous, "you'll have to work" is intimidating; a list of options, less so.

You can set a target shoe shopping date, obviously, she has to get her part done by then.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:34 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I tried to act like those threats don't scare me and that I doubt she would find staying home too exciting every day. She then says it's not a threat...she was s just telling me what will happen cuz she won't go to day camp wearing them and be embarrassed.


If this is how she feels, you need to help her. You cannot allow her to be embarrassed. Follow ramoms advice. She knows what she is talking about.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:47 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
If she doesn't get a different pair for day camp she is threatening not to go, and even is going so far as to threaten to stay home from school as well.

It would be good if you could reframe. For some reason, her statement registers in you as a threat. I don't hear it that way. I hear it as she is speaking up for herself, expressing her distress. You have not yet been able to let go of your agenda (you want her to go to camp, yes?) and I wonder if there is a part in you that feels it MUST get its way and it is asserting itself in this situation.
Would it be possible to apologize to your daughter, to say, I've been thinking about this shoe issue and I see I've not been ''getting'' you....I've been more focused on me having it my way than on listening and hearing you.
If you say this, I think she will back off. Kids learn by what you do. If you can model backing off, she will do the same.
Anytime you hear yourself saying your child is threatening you, stop, take some breaths, and hear that she is expressing her view, and for some reason you are hearing it as a threat.
By the way, do you use threats in your relationship with your children?
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amother




Jetblack
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 9:49 pm
Most girls wear sneakers in daycamp. I don't think it's fair that she needs to beg like this and work for something that's practically a need, a normal thing that most kids get regardless. I can't see how 1 pair of shoes can last a girl from now through the summer. She's really acting her age, you just have to let go of making this into a battle. Perhaps the 2 of you should learn how to communicate better with each other's.
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amother




Bronze
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 10:39 pm
Let her earn the sneakers in some way or pay with her money or pay half (whatever you’re comfortable with). Tell her that it’s her choice to go to school or not. If she doesn’t go, she is not hurting you, she is only hurting herself.
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allthingsblue




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 10:44 pm
amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:
Most girls wear sneakers in daycamp. I don't think it's fair that she needs to beg like this and work for something that's practically a need, a normal thing that most kids get regardless. I can't see how 1 pair of shoes can last a girl from now through the summer. She's really acting her age, you just have to let go of making this into a battle. Perhaps the 2 of you should learn how to communicate better with each other's.

I agree with this
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amother




Violet
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 10:51 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks for your reply. In truth I did have a long conversation with her about it. She doesn't want to be different, which I understand. On the other hand I allowed her to return the first pair of shoes which would have worked out better for both day camp and school before buying these loafers. Even before we finalized on them, she was having doubts and we even went back to see if we could rebuy the first pair that we started off with. They are sold out. She wore the loafer around the house already so I don't feel like it's right to return them. Yet to spend more money on a second pair of footwear in addition irks me especially after this ultimatum and history of the first purchase. At first we may look like mean parents who can't sympathize with a preteen and peer pressure but how much do we have to give in?


Why is she going back and forth so many times (buying pair a, changing her mind, returning them and buying pair b, changing her mind AGAIN and going back to the store to try to buy pair a again...)? Does she often have this much difficulty making decisions or is this a one time situation?
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amother




Magenta
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 10:54 pm
Your daughter is pre-teen, not the age to have power struggles with her. Time to listen as she is at the stage of forming a social identity. Very important to really take her seriously, to trust her to know what she needs in order to fit in and feel comfortable socially. Normal stage of development. Don't let your need for control or whatever take over. Not worth it. You can have a wonderful relationship with her if you begin to see her as the budding young lady she is becoming. Support her, she knows what she needs in order to succeed socially. And if she errs, that's ok. That's a necessary component of the territory. Toddlers fall many times before they walk steady. Same with preteens and teens in their social-status development.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 10:57 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
but how much do we have to give in?

you are viewing this situation from a combative lens. For some reason you are framing this as ''giving in''. You might benefit from trying a different perspective: a perspective of supporting your child as she navigates this challenging time of her life.
Why you view it or feel it as ''giving in'', is a valid exploration. It seems to point to a power/control issue that resides within you. Please work on it, because it will affect your teens as they move through their teen years.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 11:07 pm
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
It would be good if you could reframe. For some reason, her statement registers in you as a threat. I don't hear it that way. I hear it as she is speaking up for herself, expressing her distress. You have not yet been able to let go of your agenda (you want her to go to camp, yes?) and I wonder if there is a part in you that feels it MUST get its way and it is asserting itself in this situation.
Would it be possible to apologize to your daughter, to say, I've been thinking about this shoe issue and I see I've not been ''getting'' you....I've been more focused on me having it my way than on listening and hearing you.
If you say this, I think she will back off. Kids learn by what you do. If you can model backing off, she will do the same.
Anytime you hear yourself saying your child is threatening you, stop, take some breaths, and hear that she is expressing her view, and for some reason you are hearing it as a threat.
By the way, do you use threats in your relationship with your children?

In truth I can say it is not my best parenting strategy although for some reason I do end up threatening this child more than any others. She is naturally rebellious and argumentative. Intellectually I know it is not a long term solution but when it seems to be the best method which achieves results it gets utilized
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 11:12 pm
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
you are viewing this situation from a combative lens. For some reason you are framing this as ''giving in''. You might benefit from trying a different perspective: a perspective of supporting your child as she navigates this challenging time of her life.
Why you view it or feel it as ''giving in'', is a valid exploration. It seems to point to a power/control issue that resides within you. Please work on it, because it will affect your teens as they move through their teen years.

I feel like I did support her initially, allowing her to return the first pair of shoes she changed her mind about. She had already seen the second loafer option at that point. When I told her she should be sure about her choice, and that she should think about what she wants before returning them she knew what options she had. And even after this discussion my husband took her back to tye store to try for the first pair once again but they were sold out. Now I suggested she wait until she sees what kids are really wearing in day camp to decide. The threats are unnecessary and extreme, in my opinion, her attempts to force my hand.
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ra_mom




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Apr 18 2021, 11:17 pm
It sounds like she needs to be heard and understood more. There's a power struggle between you and she can use connection.
I am sure that you are a compassionate mom. I see how much you want her to be happy.
There are short impactful courses that can help you see another side to parenting, connect deeply, feel calm.
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