Threatening not to go to school or day camp

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 10:30 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

Wow. I am getting quite education about needs when it comes to shoes. I never knew that kids needed so many types of footwear. They grow out of them in 6 months or a year for goodness sake. I always thought 1 pair of shoes for weekday (whether is loafers, sandals, crocs, natives, sneakers, ballet flats, whatever makes sense for the age and season) was enough and 1 pair of shabbos shoes. And snow boots for winter. Zeh hu.

summer and spring are different seasons.

Chayalle

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 10:31 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

I think it depends on the age. My 3 year old nephew actually lived in his "nanives" all summer (he loved them so much, he didn't want to take them off for bed.)

My DD (13) has: School shoes, booties (for rain/snow days - she doesn't like boots much, so we didn't bother with them), sneakers (two pairs - last years and a new pair bought on sale for this year), Shabbos shoes, natives (for the beach), and cozy slippers.

Her school shoes are in terrible condition (bought in September) but I'm not bothering to buy her a new pair now because her school allows sneakers AND that is her preference now anyway (with all the ball games going on at recess time, it's practical anyway). If this weren't the case, I'd do what OP here did and buy her new school shoes, but getting away with that because not needed.

amother

Natural

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 10:32 am

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

You own only 1 pair and wear that sane every day even if it's inappropriate for certain settings?

At this point in my life I own more than 1 pair of shoes but it is not a need for a child to have the same number of shoes an adult has. And yeah, I do wear my shoes everyday to work, to shop, at home etc.

And I did say in my earlier post that having a pair of shabbos shoes and winter boots would be appropriate for a kid too. But all these scenarios where a kid "needs" loafers, school shoes, natives, cross, spring shoes, fall shoes, winter shoes, winter boots, sneakers is over the top, imo.

Shoes can serve dual purposes. A kid needs shoes for the summer (I.e. they grew out of the old ones or the old ones are completely ruined)- so get a pair that would work in various settings- sneakers, natives, loafers, whatever makes the most sense. I think it is a little crazy to buy all 3 every single summer.

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 11:11 am

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

None of the Williamsburg schools allow sneakers in school. Daycamp only.

Probably most Chassidishe schools in Boro Park and Monsey are the same.

Chassidish schools in Williamsburg and Boro Park allow dark colored sneakers to school. My nieces and friends kids are wearing sneakers. Dark loafer sneakers are no different than shoes. I live in Monsey and I think every Chassidish school allows sneakers. Most schools it can't be light colors but that's the case for daycamp as well.

avrahamama

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 11:31 am

I'm late to this convo. I think a pair of school shoes/sneakers and Shannon shoes for school year. And a pair of sneakers, shabbos shoes(can be from school year if still fits), pool shoes makes sense for summer. The pool shoes for some reason don't get outgrown each summer so that doesn't need to be new every year.

I don't have any girls. My boys wear their sneakers until they outgrow them and then we buy a new pair. It's not seasonal by us.

We definitely tell our son how much we think is appropriate to spend on good sneakers and let him make up the difference for something he might like more. BH he isn't a sneaker snob and pair of sturdy and supportive New Balance or Asics is enough for him. Shabbos shoes he's more particular but we will spend extra lkavod shabbos.

amother

Wine

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 11:38 am

avrahamama wrote:

You dont have girls.

amother

Pearl

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 12:51 pm

avrahamama wrote:

I also buy as the kids grow. So you can see that one pair of shoes per season is not enough because kids don't warn us before they grow. Smile

Anyway my boys have black sneakers, black shabbos shoes, rain boots, winter boots, and crocs, which we wear around the house as slippers and double as water shoes when necessary.
One of my boys prefers real slippers to crocs around the house and I bought him those, for free. Because I saw they were important to him. He feels more relaxed at home when he has comfy soft slippers, and it's important to me that he be relaxed.
Another one of my boys refuses to wear snow boots so I buy him extra high sneakers and he's happy.

My girls need ankle boots for the fall-winter season, some kind of loafer or slip on for dry days in the spring, rain boots, snow boots, and sneakers for the summer or for exercising. I like to buy sandals too because we wear only tights, and tights with sneakers aren't my favorite look, besides for which tights can get sweaty and sandals are more breathable with air circulation. Crocs or shower slippers or some kind of water shoe as well, especially for overnight camp. Shabbos shoes, I get a black pair because it matches everything and one light pair for the summer season just because it matches more.

I will admit to buying only typical black rain boots so I can pass them on to either a boy or girl. I don't think anyone can tell.

Just like kids need a warm winter coat, a lighter jacket, a raincoat, and a sweater for various weathers. Kids need more than one pair of shoes for different circumstances.

keym

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 12:59 pm

avrahamama wrote:

That was usually good enough for my boys when they were young.
By bar mitzvah age, they need a black weekday loafer, a black sneakers (so they don't kill their loafers on the basketball court), a Shabbos shoe, boots, crocks or natives. Plus many boys get a better quality pair of sneakers that's not black to wear to camp and they leave the black sneakers (school dress code, but not usually the best quality because you're limited) in school to change into by recess.
So my son's actually have 3 "weekday shoes" Shabbos shoes, boots and natives.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 1:15 pm

Something that has been entirely left out of this conversation:. The parent's ability to afford all of the cultural necessities.

When we moved to Lakewood from OOT, something we were not clued into was the cultural needs for certain shoes, certain coat, certain backpack, etc. And these things cost. I agree that the culture in Lakewood and Brooklyn is so conformist that a girl will feel like a nebach and develop low self esteem if she doesn't have certain standards (and I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it is the truth). But when a parent simply can't afford it, but knows the culture demands it, the pressure and anxiety just builds and builds. Hence the bargaining and bartering and teaching lessons...if a mother could easily afford all these shoes, this entire scenario would never have occurred.

keym

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 1:26 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

I've been living in Lakewood my whole married life, raising kids here and have teens.
And I'll say that except some specific communities and schools, it's much rarer for brand to matter rather than style.
My kids and their friends don't care what brand their shoes, schoolbag, clothing is. However style matters. If my son needs a black loafer with a small tassel, he doesn't care if I buy it for $95 at a frum store or $35 on Amazon, he wants the shoe.
My kids refused the $70 Bingo hats not because of the label, but because the brim was way too wide and it looked off.

My point is that it's not either/or. Affording something or style. A middle road is possible and what is happening by most parents.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 1:33 pm

keym wrote:

I knew that someone would post exactly this. I agree with everything you wrote, however, many parents cannot afford even that $35 item when it is for multiple children, multiple times a year. Many, many people simply cannot afford to keep up with even the most basic items necessary to conform.

amother

Pearl

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 1:37 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

It's not all or nothing. You have to see what's important to the individual child. Not everyone needs everything.

keym

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 1:44 pm

I'm referring only to the Lakewood vs OOT thing, not people who live in Lakewood and can't afford.
Tuition in Lakewood averages 7k a child compared to the 10-12k a year OOT. Kosher chicken, meat, and dairy are also significantly cheaper. Additionally there are services available for free or reduced that are not available OOT (therapies in the school, bussing and others).
I'm not arguing that if someone can't afford, they can't afford.
I'm saying that most people moving from OOT are saving money in some areas and spending in others. A child who's acting really chutzpadik and threatening usually feels desperate and lashing out. Making a child feel like they need to earn basics like sneakers is not necessarily the answer in raising an emotionally healthy child long term.

I'm just saying don't blame it on Lakewood or Brooklyn.

amother

cornflower

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 1:54 pm

OP, my advice to you for the future would be to give your daughter a budget for spring/summer shoes (or whatever the item in question is) and then she can spend it as she likes. So if your budget is, say, $60 (or $100, whatever), she can choose to spend it all on one pair of shoes or to get cheaper shoes and sneakers from Target. And if she makes choices that cost more than the budget she can spend her own money (or earn from you) for the extra.

BTW, it is crazy--and a big expense--how many different types of shoes kids "need" to have--but things like crocs, snow boots, rain boots can be handed down to younger kids in the family.

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:07 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

is it fair to say that kids see the amount of shoes mom has and need the same?
I try to keep with one air of shoes a season and I think my kids see this as an example that if I can do with one maybe they can do with one too?