Threatening not to go to school or day camp

amother

Orchid

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 8:54 am

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

Yes, she needs a pair of sneakers for daycamp. It's a standard basic. It's not something kids are supposed to "earn".
This is the reason I don't buy expensive shoes for the pesach season, because they're anyways getting sneakers for daycamp and they don't wear the shoes for that long.

This. My daughter is the same age as OP’s. I bought her a pair of similar looking loafers for much cheaper being that it is just for a few weeks of school.

amother

Tan

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 9:10 am

Op, you are locked in a power struggle with your daughter and you are not hearing her at all.
Sneakers for camp is basic and shouldn’t be causing your daughter any anxiety whatsoever and I am a frugal mom.

You are causing her terrible anxiety by this and the therapy it will cause to be needed one day is way more expensive then the sneakers.

You keep on saying she needs to earn it. Why? It’s very damaging for a child to have to feel this type of anxiety about basics. It’s ok, to say to her I made a mistake and now understand her perspective of feeling so embarrassed by this. It’s so important for teens and preteens to feel “ like we are on their side” trying to make these things easier for them. That doesn’t mean we can’t make frugal choices at times but it shouldn’t be from a perspective of a power struggle but rather a perspective of “ I’m with you, I feel for you - let’s figure this out together”.
Please don’t make your daughter earn her sneakers or apologize to you.

Next year buy cheap shoes to get by for the end of the year and buy cute and comfortable sneakers for camp.
As an aside your daughter won’t be comfortable in loafers for camp. Kids need sneakers for camp. Give your daughter a hug and disengage from this power struggle.

In general if your are using threats in your relationship with her , that is very unhealthy and will not bode well for a healthy positive relationship in the teen years.

The fact that you posted about this shows your really care as a mom. Kudos to you and take a step back and align yourself with your daughter and her feelings.
Much hatzlacha!!

paperflowers

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 9:31 am

She’s going to need sneakers for camp. They don’t need to be the exact same pair she returned that is now sold out. Is she insisting that she needs those shoes and only those will do? Or will she come around to being okay with a different style? Let the discussion slide for now and talk to her about sneakers after Shavuos. In the meantime, when she brings it up, listen to her and try to understands how she’s feeling.

amother

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 9:55 am

paperflowers wrote:

No she isn't insisting on those. It's just a shane that we can't have those that would have been perfect for both situations and now need two pairs instead. Instead of forcing her to listen to me (I am only her mother) we got the more stylish choice which isn't necessarily the best choice

amother

Blonde

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 9:58 am

I am going to go out on limb and say that maybe she felt she was between a rock and a hard place?

She had to find a shoe that would work both for school and for camp. Maybe the sneakers that you bought at first weren't so appropriate for school, and that's why she switched it? If you were specifically looking for shoes that worked for her uniform and the summer maybe the store didn't have anything that specific? I'm guessing here.

I'm just having an emotional flashback here because I didn't get to have appropriate clothes when I was a kid. My father would take to some random shoe store in a random strip mall and there was literally nothing remotely normal there, but whatever I chose I'd have to wear for school shabbos whatever. Sometimes I only had sneakers on shabbos. So I know that's not your case here, but I'm still feeling your daughters pain.

amother

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 10:01 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

Instead of having her earn the more stylish shoes, ( which might have been the better route to start with) I am having her earn the sneakers. I don't think that is unreasonable. I am sure if it came up as a question posted this way many people would agree with me.
Maybee in your regular scenario it sounds a bit harsh but if you read through the thread u will see that we have tried to accommodate her requirements/ feelings and still are in a situation that she is unhappy. We aren't such ogres that we are forcing her to wear shoes she hates or something weird that will make her stand out as strange. At this point I think it's only fair to use this as an opportunity to teach her a lesson.

amother

Jetblack

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 10:05 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Kids shouldn't need to earn basics. Period. Take the word earn out of this thread. Kids can work towards earning extra's and treats, not basics. It's very normal to get a pair of spring shoes or sneakers pesach season and another pair for camp. She's a pre teen now, if you'll make such big deal and power struggle out of everything, you'll have very hard teen years with her. You'll constantly be fighting over everything.

keym

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 10:06 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Did she know you were going to "teach her a lesson" when she had you return the first shoes?

amother

Blonde

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 10:07 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

In addition I would like to clarify the type of day camp she will be attending. It is Brooklyn based. The kids mostly stay indoors in a school building. They have activities in the school building. It is not done outdoor rural program that she needs really athletic footwear. In addition she hates sports and won't often participate in those activities. I don't think these shoes are so unacceptable for such a scenario.

None of those details matter. Your daughter doesn't want to be embarrassed, she's not worried about sports.

amother

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 10:12 am

keym wrote:

Did she know you were going to "teach her a lesson" when she had you return the first shoes?

She knew she was going to have the loafers instead. I am not "teaching her a lesson" in a malicious way. I do want her to learn she can't threaten to get the things she wants. She should earn a third pair of shoes for the year. ( If the entire reason she need the third pair is because of style and trends she prefers )

amother

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 10:14 am

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

The first shoes would have worked for both. As I said I didn't just take her to some weird store and expect her to put something completely outdated or nerdy. I am sorry for what you went through as a child but this is not the same scenario.

groovy1224

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 10:19 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Honestly this wasn't a thing. We went to the store, bought a pair that I thought she was satisfied with. Once we came home she decided it wasn't stylish enough and she wanted to return it. I then looked online and ordered the more stylish shoe. We returned the other shoe. Now in hindsight she regrets returning the first pair since she realizes it was a better idea for both day camp and school. It is too late since they are sold out. I think she needs to be taught a lesson about living with her choices in addition to appropriate arguments to make. I probably will end up buying her a sneaker too, once she earns it.

I think the issue here is that you are a bit too caught up in this lesson. In general, of course, kids need to learn sometimes through their own mistakes and life experience. In this case, she made a slightly less practical choice of footwear. The original pair could have worked for school and camp (according to you), and the pair she ended up with won't work for camp (according to her). This is just not worth fighting over. By all means have a talk with her and explain that ultimatums and tantrums are not how you communicate in your family, but understand that she is doing it because she feels unheard and desperate. This is an important time for you need to be making sure she knows that she is seen, heard, and that her feelings and opinions are considered. Sometimes that might mean doing something you think is silly or unnecessary, but it's worth it in the long run. Does that mean giving in to every demand or making sure she has EVERYTHING her friends have? Obviously not, but when the 'argument' can be solved with $25 target sneakers, I think the solution is clear. Buy them for her, and tell her "Daddy/Tatty and I want you to be happy and have a good time in camp. At the same time, I didn't appreciate how you went about asking me for them, so we need to talk about ways you can express to me when something is important to you. I love you and want to make sure you are happy and have everything you need, but we can't communicate in that way.'

keym

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 10:19 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

She's 11.
You're expecting a lot of advanced thinking and it might not have been clear that
1) you expect the shoe bought in April to suffice through August
2) if it won't suffice because of style or trend, you'd expect her to earn for a new pair
3) to ask her if she thinks these cognac loafers will work for school and summer to make sure that she was actually thinking about camp.

If you made sure she was ok with this shoe for school and camp, and you asked again to be sure, and you clarified your expectations that if she changes her mind, she'll have to earn, then by all means, let her earn.
But if any of those steps were assumed or presumed or expected, then yeah it's unfair expectations for an 11 year old.

Chayalle

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 10:42 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

In truth I can say it is not my best parenting strategy although for some reason I do end up threatening this child more than any others. She is naturally rebellious and argumentative. Intellectually I know it is not a long term solution but when it seems to be the best method which achieves results it gets utilized

Not only is it not a long-term solution, but in the long run it can cause damage to your relationship with her.

Chanoch L'naar al pi Darko. Every child is different. This child clearly has more needs than others.

amother

Tan

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 11:27 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I’m sorry Op, I really disagree with your approach. I don’t think it’s fair to make a child pay for sneakers - that is a basic right of a child. This is not being used as a chinuch moment,rather this just fosters more anxiety in your daughter for the next shopping trip.
To buy sneakers without the anxiety that is being caused by all this pressure, is a basic right of a child.
I’m sure you mean well but I think you should really try to think this through, removing your “negia” and understand your daughters perspective.
I would have done exactly what your daughter did. She did nothing wrong and I feel sorry for her that she is in such a tough situation. The luxury here is the second pair of school shoes btw - not the sneakers for camp.
Sneakers for camp is a basic need of a child.
Much hatzlacha!!