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amother
OP
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 Mon, Apr 19 2021, 3:58 pm
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I have an edge. I like to be different. I'm not refined or eidel. My dream is to be able to wear a tank and leggings and get double piercings and a small sophisticated tattoo on the inside of my wrist (ok maybe not the tattoo). I'm just edgy. For years I have felt wrong for being like this. (To clarify, I did go through a "stage" of expressing this, but now, I try hard to follow Halacha, I dress tzniyus out of the house, and I don't really let this show). I feel like I need to squash it, and that I can only really be frum if I am refined and dress refined etc. (I dress tzniyus, although it is extremely hard for me and feels like I am squashing my personality. But if I let go of tzniyus, I believe it will lead me completely otd). But recently, I've been told to just accept my personality and edge. Is there a way for me to use this for the positive in ruchniyus? I've heard that "there is room for individuality within halacha". Where is that?? I can't seem to find it. Please don't tell me that it's that we can dress in whatever our style is while being tzniyus. Sometimes I try to convince myself that, oh let me use it to be rebellious against the yetzer hara, and be different in the sense that most people arent careful about xyz so let me work really hard my avodas Hashem in this area, or that my husband can see me dressed like that so I'll get it out of my system with him.. But I feel like I'm lying to myself when I say that and it doesn't satisfy me. IS THERE A PLACE FOR MY EDGE AND WANTING TO BE DIFFERENT IN RUCHNIYUS???
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tigerwife
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:18 pm
How is it that you feel you are squashing personality with tznius? Is it that you specifically want to show more skin or is it style?
Little things you can do for yourself could be fun nails (just toes if you’re makpid not to have bright fingernails), dye your hair a cool color, get a temporary tattoo (henna). Some women on here have pierced their navel. I’ve found that with things like a henna or hair dye, it’s enough to do it for myself even if no one else sees it.
I think that any woman can do any job or hobby so that wouldn’t feel restrictive for me. I also have fun sartorially while keeping within the confines of Halacha.
Good luck. You shouldn’t have to repress yourself.
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Rutabaga
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:20 pm
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Do you have to express this edge in dress? Can you instead express it in art or music or words?
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tigerwife
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:20 pm
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Specifically for ruchnius- I think there is a big place for people who are bold and different anf not afraid to stand out. Think teaching or motivational speaking or working in any environment where you need to feel confident enough to stick to your values.
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paperflowers
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:23 pm
Some of it depends on your community and how much you care about fitting in with all of that community’s social norms. Like, there’s nothing untznius about a second piercing, but it’s not acceptable in certain communities. In other communities, no one will give you problems about it (except your mother and possibly your child’s principal lol) but it’s not considered refined. And in other communities people won’t bat an eyelash. So you may not be able to go all out in your style, but you can incorporate some details.
I’m not as edgy as you are, but I can’t deal with having to dress to the nines everyday in order to be “refined.” There are all sorts of frum women, and not all of them dress in that typical bais Yaakov style and smile sweetly and talk softly.
I’m sorry that you’re struggling so much with fitting your personality and style into your ruchniyus. There is so much to ruchniyus besides for tznius. What are other aspects of yiddishkeit you relate to more?
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amother
White
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:25 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | I have an edge. I like to be different. I'm not refined or eidel. My dream is to be able to wear a tank and leggings and get double piercings and a small sophisticated tattoo on the inside of my wrist (ok maybe not the tattoo). I'm just edgy. For years I have felt wrong for being like this. (To clarify, I did go through a "stage" of expressing this, but now, I try hard to follow Halacha, I dress tzniyus out of the house, and I don't really let this show). I feel like I need to squash it, and that I can only really be frum if I am refined and dress refined etc. (I dress tzniyus, although it is extremely hard for me and feels like I am squashing my personality. But if I let go of tzniyus, I believe it will lead me completely otd). But recently, I've been told to just accept my personality and edge. Is there a way for me to use this for the positive in ruchniyus? I've heard that "there is room for individuality within halacha". Where is that?? I can't seem to find it. Please don't tell me that it's that we can dress in whatever our style is while being tzniyus. Sometimes I try to convince myself that, oh let me use it to be rebellious against the yetzer hara, and be different in the sense that most people arent careful about xyz so let me work really hard my avodas Hashem in this area, or that my husband can see me dressed like that so I'll get it out of my system with him.. But I feel like I'm lying to myself when I say that and it doesn't satisfy me. IS THERE A PLACE FOR MY EDGE AND WANTING TO BE DIFFERENT IN RUCHNIYUS??? |
My sister has double piercings. I know plenty of people with double piercings. The tattoo is against halacha, so why not do a temporary one, or a henna? I know women who wear blue wigs and rainbow wigs, and it's cool. Those biker boots are totally in style now, you can get a ton on Zara. Wear your leggings under a skirt. Wear all the motocycle jackets.
Check out Noemi Elicha - super cool, super edgy.
https://www.instagram.com/noemieelicha/
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amother
OP
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:31 pm
| Rutabaga wrote: | | Do you have to express this edge in dress? Can you instead express it in art or music or words? |
I do connect deeply with and live off of music, which has been not Jewish. I have been fighting myself to stop listening, another way I am squashing myself. Jewish music just doesn't give it to me.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:34 pm
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Just to clarify, I don't mean trashy. My edginess is not lowly, it is more sophisticated and different. Like when I dream of a double piercing, I don't want a chain type. I would love just a small second diamond. I understand that most people consider that trashy either way. But you hear the chiluk?
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sequoia
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:35 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | I do connect deeply with and live off of music, which has been not Jewish. I have been fighting myself to stop listening, another way I am squashing myself. Jewish music just doesn't give it to me. |
You’re trying to stop listening to all music that’s not specifically “frum”?
Everything from rock and classical to showtunes?
Why?... Just don’t pick music with disgusting lyrics. I assume that rap that degrades women isn’t your style anyway.
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amother
White
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:36 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | I do connect deeply with and live off of music, which has been not Jewish. I have been fighting myself to stop listening, another way I am squashing myself. Jewish music just doesn't give it to me. |
There are better Jewish music options out there, so if you really want to ONLY listen to Jewish music, there's better choices than there used to be. But I don't see this as a direct contrast to being frum. There's so much in movies and in secular music that speaks to me, and that these ideas or struggles aren't allowed to be expressed in Jewish music and Jewish art. So maybe I'm the wrong person to ask, because I think it's fine.
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paperflowers
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:38 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Just to clarify, I don't mean trashy. My edginess is not lowly, it is more sophisticated and different. Like when I dream of a double piercing, I don't want a chain type. I would love just a small second diamond. I understand that most people consider that trashy either way. But you hear the chiluk? |
Yeah, there’s totally a difference.
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tigerwife
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:42 pm
I love the ear parties. I won’t get a second piercing but I have fun with crawlers and ear cuffs.
I hear you with the music thing. I love Moshav band. Dangerous World and New Sun Rising are awesome. I also like Menachem Weinstein. I actually write my own rock/soul songs and play them a lot.
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amother
Amethyst
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 4:46 pm
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Are you musical? Why don't you write your own music?
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amother
OP
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 5:07 pm
| sequoia wrote: | You’re trying to stop listening to all music that’s not specifically “frum”?
Everything from rock and classical to showtunes?
Why?... Just don’t pick music with disgusting lyrics. I assume that rap that degrades women isn’t your style anyway. |
You're right, not my style. I like the motivational stuff. Love Jordan Smith, etc. I do like love songs also- My first step was to stop with cursng and love songs. But I know that I can stop with all of it.I mostly have for now. I just need to find that healthy balance where I can still express/ get what I need without it. And I have not found that.
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sequoia
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 5:24 pm
Okay I still don’t understand what the issue is.
You think Sir Moses Montefiore and his wife didn’t go to classical music concerts? They sure did!
This idea that frum Jews can only consume fiction or art that is intended for a frum audience is a really new one. Like, late 20th century.
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amother
Oak
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 6:15 pm
Within Halacha or within community norms?
Within Halacha I think the box is huge. Within norms, not so much.
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yksraya
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 6:20 pm
1. Start taking baby steps. It seems to me like you are stopping cold turkey too much at once, which can cause you to feel deprived.
2. Listen to shiurim that explain the beauty of tznius, kosher music, etc, so that you feel pride in growing in your ruchniyus, rather than restricted.
3. Express your personality in other areas such as home decor, party planning (even if just for your own simchas etc), purim theme, etc.
4. When you shop clothes, instead of focusing on what you can't have, be creative and find unique styles that you "can" have.
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amother
Olive
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 6:24 pm
It depends on your community. If you live in town, there’s no room for your edge.
If you don’t live in such a community, what’s stopping you? I used to live out of town, and people dressed however they wanted, within the tznius guidelines. It was such a breath of fresh air.
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amother
Rose
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 6:25 pm
Im like you and took hip hop for a while. it really helped me.
I also wear pretty cool sheitels, like ombré. Also ombré manicures lol.
I’ve gotten pretty good at being unique but within community norms.
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amother
Lilac
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Mon, Apr 19 2021, 6:27 pm
Within halacha, have fun!.
Not within halacha, don't we all have nisyonos?
I don't struggle with tznius, but I love to gossip. Does yiddeshkeit restrict that? Of course! If everything were easy, we wouldn't be growing.
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