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-> Infants
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amother
Taupe
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 Mon, Apr 26 2021, 1:22 am
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A seven week old baby has just emerged from the womb. He's barely used to being alive. So no, you can't get him to live on a schedule. Wear him strapped to your chest when you absolutely need to get something done, and that's that. He'll learn soon enough how to settle down.
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amother
Honeydew
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 3:47 am
I have spent a lot on time on this site recently and I am finding it so hard to read what people write. Some people are so mean and judgmental. If you don't have something nice to say keep the comments to yourself.
The OP doesn't care about your CIO opinions, She is looking for support and help in her situation.
Yes, a 7 week old is young to let cry, HOWEVER, if you have never had a baby who DOESN'T sleep then think twice before you answer and give unhelpful advice.
OP, I have 2 children like yours. From the day they were born they didn't sleep well. My one who is 6 still wakes at night and there is nothing I can do (and for all you scoffers out there, I have been to sleep clinic, neurologist, ENT, pulmonologist- he has night terrors and nothing to do). My 2 that wake are VERY sensory and from the nights in the hospital they woke constantly from the lights and other babies crying. One of them used to wake every 45 minutes for a few years. I feel your pain.
Sometimes even at 7 weeks I HAD to leave the room for a few minutes and no one around to hold the baby. And yes, the baby HAD to cry for it's safety or I might have shaken him or thrown him out the window.
7 weeks, lack of sleep, and a non-stop crying baby who feeds randomly and doesn't sleep can cause serious PPD. You need to watch yourself and make sure you aren't pushed over. (maybe DH can walk the baby in the stroller OUTSIDE away from you for an hour or so).
You can try swaddling, I found that helped with some kids and also see what position you are putting the baby to sleep. I know back is safer, but I found in order to get the sleep/quiet I needed, the baby needed to sleep on it's stomach.
See if you can 'force' the paci, it takes time but might be worth it.
Also, you can try a formula bottle, it's heavier and some babies sleep better with it.
One more thing...if you baby possibly not handling your milk? Is he throwing up or seem uncomfortable. Maybe you hare eating something to not allow him to settle.
I hope some of this helps.
And I beg women in general to stop commenting on these threads if you aren't going to be helpful. I personally have been hurt in a crisis and I see many others have too.
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amother
Taupe
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 3:53 am
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One of my kids cried pretty much non-stop for the first six months of her life. I'm not preaching, I'm sympathizing. None of which changes the fact that newborns need to be held and fed and comforted. It can be overwhelming, but that's the reality. The solution isn't to let the baby cry but to rearrange your life as much as possible to accommodate the baby's needs.
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amother
Smokey
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 4:11 am
I haven’t read through the whole thread, so sorry if this has been said already.
The not feeding well and not sleeping well could be connected and each exacerbating the other.
Sometimes a good lactation consultant can help with these things.
I don’t know where you are but on Instagram melbourne_lactation talks about this a lot.
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amother
Crimson
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 7:48 am
Hi OP, I feel like I could've written your post a few months ago minus the older child. I was surrounded by people who sleep trained their babies by 2 to 3 months, so I thought it was just a matter of spacing feeding/naps. I imagine your first was a "decoy" baby, one of those for whom those sleep books actually work, so you want to sleep train your second accordingly.
I don't think you're wrong. I don't think 7 weeks is too early to establish certain sleeping habits for many babies. The problem is that for some babies it won't work to the extent that we want it to. I saw a doctor define colic not only as babies who cry for 3 hours daily, but also babies who require at least 3 hours of active soothing daily to prevent them from crying. In that sense, I'd suspect that your baby has colic.
Perhaps you're worried that if you wear your baby all day, your baby will get used to sleeping only on you. In my case, that totally didn't happen. I wanted my baby to sleep at night, but if the baby didn't nap during the day, a good night sleep is not going to happen. So I made the decision to wear my baby for naps because some sleep is better than no sleep. I strongly encourage you to try this if you haven't. I continued to try to put my baby down awake for each nap, but if it didn't work, immediately into the carrier. Surprise! By the time baby was 14 weeks, she knew how to go down awake and fall asleep in her crib. So what happened? She outgrew her colic. I know that's a long way away, but colic goes away at around 12 weeks for a majority of babies.
At first, the only nap this worked for was her first morning nap. The trick is to put the baby down 45 minutes after waking. I'd try to put her down awake for the rest of her naps, if it didn't work, I'd wear her. Eventually she went down for all naps awake. You CAN sleep train your baby, unfortunately if they have a version of colic, you may have to wait a bit.
Just a couple of notes from a sleep consultant I used that worked for me:
All awake windows for an overtired baby that age should be 30 to 45 minutes, at least until they catch up on sleep. You might see 1.5 hours in literature but that's for only some fully rested babies. Once they catch up, watch for tired signs (varies by baby: unable to maintain eye contact, staring off, red eyebrows).
Also, you cannot sleep train an overtired baby. When you start training, you need to do whatever works to catch up the sleep debt, and only then start training. So if your baby will only nap on you during the day, do that just to catch up on sleep. At this age it shouldn't form bad habits. Reassess when baby is 13 weeks (from their due date). It should be marginally easier by then. (Not easy by a long shot, but easier.)
Also I know some people are saying feed on demand but sometimes feeding too often causes baby to snack, not get any filling hindmilk, and need to constantly snack. It's generally okay to try to aim for 2 hours between feeds unless your doctor advises otherwise.
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amother
Brunette
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 8:13 am
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First of all chas veshalom, I only want you and baby to be healthy and tummy time is important (I am on OT). The more you put your baby on stomach, the faster your baby will develop strong neck muscles and you wont be nervous anymore. PLEASE try nursing in bed while you sleep. You need to be careful but that's how I managed many babies and especially following a cesection when I can barely move. Also, youtlr husband could skip learning torah to help a sleep deprived falling apart wife. My husband would never take a little baby to maariv. Personally that's a very silly request.
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amother
Chocolate
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 9:48 am
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People keep mentioning a formula bottle. For my baby it made things worse! after I gave him a bottle in order that he should sleep better, He was in agony the whole night , twisting and turning from stomach pain. I vowed to never do that to him (or myself lol) again.
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hodeez
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 9:52 am
| amother [ Chocolate ] wrote: | | People keep mentioning a formula bottle. For my baby it made things worse! after I gave him a bottle in order that he should sleep better, He was in agony the whole night , twisting and turning from stomach pain. I vowed to never do that to him (or myself lol) again. |
Don't knock formula, just try a different one.
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amother
Slateblue
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 10:19 am
| amother [ Blue ] wrote: | | No, there is a balance. If the baby is crying at 2.5 hours, I feed. If the baby is crying at 3 hours, I feed. So I very much feed on demand, when I know my baby is crying. Feeding your baby every time he cries, is not necessary! Only if he’s actually hungry. A baby isn’t usually hungry less than 2.5 hours after a feed. Unless you know your baby takes a full feeding every half hour. Full feedings are so important. That’s why we wait in between feeds for the baby to become hungry |
You aren’t understanding how to to demand feed and why it’s best to feed baby that way. I don’t have time to explain right now but there is a tremendous amount of research that can be found online as to why babies do best when demand fed. Also if you are waiting for a baby to cry then you are missing their hunger signs as crying is a very late sign of hunger.
Babies that age have tiny stomachs and breast milk gets digested very rapidly. Baby will let you know how much he wants to eat and for how long, when you allow him to. Obviously never push past 3 hours as they are very little. But if a baby wishes to eat every hour that’s perfectly fine. It’s easier for a mom to wait every three hours but not what research shows is best for little babies.
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amother
Slateblue
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 10:31 am
| amother [ Honeydew ] wrote: | I have spent a lot on time on this site recently and I am finding it so hard to read what people write. Some people are so mean and judgmental. If you don't have something nice to say keep the comments to yourself.
The OP doesn't care about your CIO opinions, She is looking for support and help in her situation.
Yes, a 7 week old is young to let cry, HOWEVER, if you have never had a baby who DOESN'T sleep then think twice before you answer and give unhelpful advice.
OP, I have 2 children like yours. From the day they were born they didn't sleep well. My one who is 6 still wakes at night and there is nothing I can do (and for all you scoffers out there, I have been to sleep clinic, neurologist, ENT, pulmonologist- he has night terrors and nothing to do). My 2 that wake are VERY sensory and from the nights in the hospital they woke constantly from the lights and other babies crying. One of them used to wake every 45 minutes for a few years. I feel your pain.
Sometimes even at 7 weeks I HAD to leave the room for a few minutes and no one around to hold the baby. And yes, the baby HAD to cry for it's safety or I might have shaken him or thrown him out the window.
7 weeks, lack of sleep, and a non-stop crying baby who feeds randomly and doesn't sleep can cause serious PPD. You need to watch yourself and make sure you aren't pushed over. (maybe DH can walk the baby in the stroller OUTSIDE away from you for an hour or so).
You can try swaddling, I found that helped with some kids and also see what position you are putting the baby to sleep. I know back is safer, but I found in order to get the sleep/quiet I needed, the baby needed to sleep on it's stomach.
See if you can 'force' the paci, it takes time but might be worth it.
Also, you can try a formula bottle, it's heavier and some babies sleep better with it.
One more thing...if you baby possibly not handling your milk? Is he throwing up or seem uncomfortable. Maybe you hare eating something to not allow him to settle.
I hope some of this helps.
And I beg women in general to stop commenting on these threads if you aren't going to be helpful. I personally have been hurt in a crisis and I see many others have too. |
Sounds very difficult, and I’m sorry you had to go through that.
It’s important that young moms are aware as to the negative effect of CIO as they can be misguided and not realize the detrimental effect that it can have on a baby. So although you might find some opinions off putting, we are trying to help a young mom do what’s best for for her baby.
This has nothing to do with your personal situation which sounds extremely challenging and I myself have been in a similar situation and it was painful. Lots of hugs and sleep to all moms and babies. 
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tichellady
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 10:33 am
| amother [ Chocolate ] wrote: | | People keep mentioning a formula bottle. For my baby it made things worse! after I gave him a bottle in order that he should sleep better, He was in agony the whole night , twisting and turning from stomach pain. I vowed to never do that to him (or myself lol) again. |
From what I read I agree. Not a good idea to introduce formula for a breastfed baby to fill baby up. It can backfire and plenty of formula fed babies are bad sleepers
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Mindys_mommy
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 10:34 am
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Wake windows no more than 30 mins. For naps when you are nearby, put to sleep on tummy and keep an eye on baby. Swaddle, noise machine, dark room, rock the cradle for soothing motion. An overtired baby will scream and won’t sleep long.
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amother
Slateblue
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 10:39 am
| amother [ Crimson ] wrote: | Hi OP, I feel like I could've written your post a few months ago minus the older child. I was surrounded by people who sleep trained their babies by 2 to 3 months, so I thought it was just a matter of spacing feeding/naps. I imagine your first was a "decoy" baby, one of those for whom those sleep books actually work, so you want to sleep train your second accordingly.
I don't think you're wrong. I don't think 7 weeks is too early to establish certain sleeping habits for many babies. The problem is that for some babies it won't work to the extent that we want it to. I saw a doctor define colic not only as babies who cry for 3 hours daily, but also babies who require at least 3 hours of active soothing daily to prevent them from crying. In that sense, I'd suspect that your baby has colic.
Perhaps you're worried that if you wear your baby all day, your baby will get used to sleeping only on you. In my case, that totally didn't happen. I wanted my baby to sleep at night, but if the baby didn't nap during the day, a good night sleep is not going to happen. So I made the decision to wear my baby for naps because some sleep is better than no sleep. I strongly encourage you to try this if you haven't. I continued to try to put my baby down awake for each nap, but if it didn't work, immediately into the carrier. Surprise! By the time baby was 14 weeks, she knew how to go down awake and fall asleep in her crib. So what happened? She outgrew her colic. I know that's a long way away, but colic goes away at around 12 weeks for a majority of babies.
At first, the only nap this worked for was her first morning nap. The trick is to put the baby down 45 minutes after waking. I'd try to put her down awake for the rest of her naps, if it didn't work, I'd wear her. Eventually she went down for all naps awake. You CAN sleep train your baby, unfortunately if they have a version of colic, you may have to wait a bit.
Just a couple of notes from a sleep consultant I used that worked for me:
All awake windows for an overtired baby that age should be 30 to 45 minutes, at least until they catch up on sleep. You might see 1.5 hours in literature but that's for only some fully rested babies. Once they catch up, watch for tired signs (varies by baby: unable to maintain eye contact, staring off, red eyebrows).
Also, you cannot sleep train an overtired baby. When you start training, you need to do whatever works to catch up the sleep debt, and only then start training. So if your baby will only nap on you during the day, do that just to catch up on sleep. At this age it shouldn't form bad habits. Reassess when baby is 13 weeks (from their due date). It should be marginally easier by then. (Not easy by a long shot, but easier.)
Also I know some people are saying feed on demand but sometimes feeding too often causes baby to snack, not get any filling hindmilk, and need to constantly snack. It's generally okay to try to aim for 2 hours between feeds unless your doctor advises otherwise. |
You keep on talking about a sleep debt which is an interesting concept. Do you have any research or articles that I can read that verifies that concept. I wonder if it’s true that you really change a baby’s awake time limit based on their sleep debt? Thanks
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amother
Crimson
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 11:32 am
| amother [ Slateblue ] wrote: | | You keep on talking about a sleep debt which is an interesting concept. Do you have any research or articles that I can read that verifies that concept. I wonder if it’s true that you really change a baby’s awake time limit based on their sleep debt? Thanks |
I learned about that concept wrt awake windows in consultation with a group of child health nurses regarding my baby's sleep issues. An overtired baby isn't going to go to sleep easy so you want to catch them before they're overtired. If they have sleep debt, they'll have less energy to stay awake longer and they also have to make up more sleep. This helped me a lot to get my baby to take longer naps. (Doesn't happen right away - can take 5 days to 2 weeks for a baby that's past the colic stage. During colic stage, not sure if anything will help).
I was also encouraged to shorten awake windows the day after we have disrupted naps/sleep, such as if we're traveling for a day, or if we go to a different time zone, or after baby has been sick or teething. It makes sense to me.
But Google sleep debt. It doesn't just affect babies, it affects adults too. It's not an obscure concept.
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amother
Firebrick
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 12:32 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | And I'm talking about controlled crying-type training, where the child is left crying for 2 minutes (on a timer) before the parent returns and attempts to calm/resettle the baby while the child remains in his/her crib.
So if you don't believe in it, what would YOU do with a 7-week-old baby (who is gaining weight well and is overall healthy BH) who doesn't fall asleep independently, whilst being rocked/patted or in the swing or whilst being held etc etc. And when he DOES eventually fall asleep, can't transition to the next sleep cycle and is awake again 30-45 minutes later? I'm referring to daytime only.
He is the younger brother of a very demanding toddler and the son of two working parents - I don't have the time to rock/pat/swing him etc to sleep for every nap which only ends up being 30-45min long anyway. So I'm wondering what all the sleep-training blasters on here would do with such a baby? |
sleep training blasters usually don't work 
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amother
Yellow
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 1:01 pm
| amother [ Firebrick ] wrote: | | sleep training blasters usually don't work |
A lot of the Responses above about demand feeding sound a lot like attachment parenting. Which is fine but call a spade a spade. And acknowledge that’s what you’re doing while also acknowledging that is not for everyone and it’s one Methodology but that there are many others
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amother
Oak
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 3:47 pm
Um, hello.
My baby is 7 weeks and I am back at WORK. Every single day. 9-4.
When exactly should I sleep.
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amother
Slateblue
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 7:58 pm
| amother [ Crimson ] wrote: | I learned about that concept wrt awake windows in consultation with a group of child health nurses regarding my baby's sleep issues. An overtired baby isn't going to go to sleep easy so you want to catch them before they're overtired. If they have sleep debt, they'll have less energy to stay awake longer and they also have to make up more sleep. This helped me a lot to get my baby to take longer naps. (Doesn't happen right away - can take 5 days to 2 weeks for a baby that's past the colic stage. During colic stage, not sure if anything will help).
I was also encouraged to shorten awake windows the day after we have disrupted naps/sleep, such as if we're traveling for a day, or if we go to a different time zone, or after baby has been sick or teething. It makes sense to me.
But Google sleep debt. It doesn't just affect babies, it affects adults too. It's not an obscure concept. |
Interesting, thanks for the detailed response.
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amother
Slateblue
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 8:00 pm
| amother [ Yellow ] wrote: | | A lot of the Responses above about demand feeding sound a lot like attachment parenting. Which is fine but call a spade a spade. And acknowledge that’s what you’re doing while also acknowledging that is not for everyone and it’s one Methodology but that there are many others |
I am a big fan of attachment parenting and it’s great.
Demand feeding isn’t just in alliance with attachment parenting. The official recommendation of the American Academy of Pediatrics is to demand feed as well. The current mainstream medical opinion is that demand feeding is best for little ones.
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amother
Yellow
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Mon, Apr 26 2021, 8:19 pm
| amother [ Slateblue ] wrote: | I am a big fan of attachment parenting and it’s great.
Demand feeding isn’t just in alliance with attachment parenting. The official recommendation of the American Academy of Pediatrics is to demand feed as well. The current mainstream medical opinion is that demand feeding is best for little ones. |
That’s fine but the responses about watching for facial expressions and not Waiting for a cry to knew the baby is hungry is a bit OTT for those of us not practicing AP. I can only speak for myself bit I don’t sit at stare at my infant all day. I know what cries mean tired vs hungry and I know (because I formula feed) how much he took when but The expectation that a mom who doesn’t practice AP do any more than that isn’t typical IME. From OP post it doesn’t sound like she necessarily practices AP so (if I’m right) I wanted to validate her in that way
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