Please only answer if Yeshivish/chasidish

amother

Coral

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 1:41 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

And for the record, is it really as chumor to be seen less covered than usual by a non-Jewish male? I always thought it was not as chumor.... (not that I’ve ever done it..)

You need to be covered in front of any male, regardless of sect, religion, race, nationality.

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 1:42 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

And for the record, is it really as chumor to be seen less covered than usual by a non-Jewish male? I always thought it was not as chumor.... (not that I’ve ever done it..)

Why would you think so?
Non jews dont have to worry about making brachos in your presence, but otherwise the mitzva of tznius is on you.

amother

Linen

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 1:43 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

To clarify, I wouldn’t be in close view of any males, it’s just that the pool would not have a proper mechitza.. but nevermind, it’s probably not worth being lenient about ...
And I typically ask my husband to ask a rav these questions, he’s just so excited about the vacation, I was afraid he’d pasken himself!! (I’m booking the place and having a hard time finding a suitable house with a private pool)

If someone looking out his window could see you in your bathing suit, it's an aveira. Doesn't matter how close he is.

It's worth asking so you feel happy and confident that you are doing the right thing. You won't have doubts and confusing thoughts. You'll be able to address your yetzer hara with the knowledge of halacha.

amother

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 1:44 pm

Thanks . I somehow thought you had to be only “decently” covered in front of non- Jewish men. So that you technically don’t need to cover your collarbone, wear socks etc. even if you normally do so amongst frum males...
I guess that was a misconception of mine, though it was not “Halacha lemaaseh”, because I’m always super tzniusdig...

amother

Coral

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 1:46 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Why did you think so? What led you to think so? Were you taught it's ok?

Chayalle

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 1:47 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

And for the record, is it really as chumor to be seen less covered than usual by a non-Jewish male? I always thought it was not as chumor.... (not that I’ve ever done it..)

Ask your LOR, but I never heard that.

If a male (any, whether Jewish or not) is doing his job (like being the bus driver or lifeguard) there are leniencies. Since sometimes these were non-Jews, people extrapolate and think it means we can be more lenient in front of them.

But I could be wrong. I'm Jewish and Orthodox, but I'm no Rabbi.....

chanchy123

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 1:51 pm

I am not yeshivish or chassidish but I do own a tznius bathing suit that fits my general tznius standards. I have no issue using it in a secluded pool or general mixed beach or pool. I would not wear a regular non tznius suit if other people could see me.

amother

Mustard

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 1:53 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yep, misconception.

All that you're describing are things that you may not have to do in niddah, depending on how machmir your Rav is. But not with non-Jewish men.

As far as wearing socks, that you can ask your LOR. My aunt went to Thailand and was told to ask a shaila from the local Rav, who said that she doesn't have to wear socks there.

amother

Coral

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 2:11 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Maybe the misconception came from me reading that it’s okay to entice a non-Jew, but it’s not okay to cause the same machshavos for a Jew ....
Though I could’ve dreamt the whole thing ...

This is weird. Where did you read that it's ok to entice non jewish male? It's no different or probably worse than flirting.

amother

Coral

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 2:14 pm

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

I always assume there’s another couple thinking the same just a door away, and eager to share pictures. I’ve seen too many pictures to feel comfortable doing that.

This. It's disgusting that people think they must take a picture of everything they see and send it to the world. Horrible. That's why I hate to vacation at places that are popular for the frum communities. I don't do anything wrong but people take pictures of couples just sitting outside hanging out together! Disgusting. A picture once circled of my sister n law and BIL wearing matching hats because someone thought it's so funny to take a picture.

seven-up

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 2:16 pm

I remember learning this in high school and it made a lasting impression on me and greatly impacted how I view the mitzvah of tznius:

There are parts of tznius that are halacha and parts that are chumros. But even though showing parts of the leg below the knee for example is perhaps not halacha, one should always try to be machmir because tznius is also a middah. So the more we erode the boundaries of tznius, something within our neshama erodes as well. In a sense, tznius is a window into our souls so the more tznius we are, even above and beyond halacha l'maasah, the "purer" our neshama becomes. And this doesn't just include dress but what we expose ourselves to as well. We may also find that the more often we give in on the extra's for tznius the more we begin to see things differently and may find ourselves giving in on other areas as well.

So even if you go to the beach thinking chances are slim a man will see you, you should still be tznius in case someone does, even on the off chance a heter exists (We used to sing on the bus with a non Jewish bus driver because supposedly there was a heter....) because it's better for YOU, we're not talking about the man here, to be more machmir.

Just sharing that thought in case it helps you decide Smile

Goody2shoes

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 2:19 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

ah the million dollar question.....................does privacy still exist today?

PeanutMama

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 2:22 pm

Chasidish here and I wouldn’t wear a swimsuit lol.
I’d wear a tznius swimsuit cuz that’s just what I’m comfortable wearing. In both secluded and non secluded and Jewish and non Jewish
Also I don’t think my husband would agree to go to the beach if it’s filled with people cuz it’s mixed.

amother

Coral

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 2:28 pm

wannabamom wrote:

ah the million dollar question.....................does privacy still exist today?

I don't think so! It's awful and I'm never totally comfortable whenever we're vacationing, wether alone or with family. And I don't do anything different than usual when on vacation. People just think it's funny to take a picture of a couple sitting on the beach.

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Apr 27 2021, 2:30 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Maybe the misconception came from me reading that it’s okay to entice a non-Jew, but it’s not okay to cause the same machshavos for a Jew ....
Though I could’ve dreamt the whole thing ...

No...just no.