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Children want to know why our relatives don't dress tznius
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finprof




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 03 2021, 8:58 pm
My answer: Our family does this, their family does not. We believe this is what Hashem wants as you learn in school and Shul. Just because everyone does not do what we do does not mean that they are wrong or we are right. When you are old enough you will decide what community you want to belong to just know that Mommy and Abba will love you no matter what.
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amother




Green
 

Post Mon, May 03 2021, 10:01 pm
I don't know why they don't dress tznius. It's not the right to do. That's really between them and Hashem. It doesn't change that they're family and we love them.

Just this Shabbat my son asked grandma why she pulled up to our house in her car. He saw her drive and he was crushed. She said "I know that the Torah says not to drive on Shabbat. I know it's not the right thing to do. I am old and I never kept shabbat and now I'm too old to walk to you. I hope Hashem forgives me. I know Hashem loves me. You are so lucky that you have an imma and abba that keep shabbat and make it special for you." You know what? He crawled into her lap had a snuggle and didn't think twice about that answer

I respect my mother and respect her answer. I'm more frustrated by family members that don't keep tznius or shabbat even by the most liberal MO standards and then call themselves frum. Swimming on shabbat may be do-able if you really look it up and plan it well (and extremely difficult to do in the local public pool). Slip and slides on the lawn are not ok. I don't know what rav can find the wiggle room around turning a sprinkler on to play in the yard on shabbat. Jeans and pants might be ok. Especially these days as quite a few men are walking around wearing skirts anyway. But let's not delude ourselves or our kids and claim that our diverse and somewhat frum family members have a teshuva that allows for bikinis in mixed company.

We are close to them and love them dearly. We do not confuse ourselves or our kids by claiming anything other than "we don't know why they do it. It's none of our business. We follow our hashkafa and standards. It doesn't change our love for them"
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amother




Peach
 

Post Mon, May 03 2021, 10:09 pm
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
Funny story.

My sister doesn't dress tznius, my kids have never really asked me about it but I remember one time when she ate over Friday night my son told over his dvar torah, saying jacob and issac and gd. Lol.
ok this is hilarious 🤣
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samantha87




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 03 2021, 11:10 pm
amother [ Salmon ] wrote:
My response to my child of any age would be:

Not everyone knows what they’re supposed to do (that’s for those who really don’t know better) and some do know but they have a big yetzer hora for certain things. Just like we might be better in tznius but not great at blank. So we don’t judge anyone. And we hope no one judges us. We all try the best we can with the tools and education we have” end of story.

I think this is the honest truth and only an honest answer will be accepted by my kids. A vague answer like “they do things differently“ wouldn’t work in my home.


To all those who answer that they just don't know it's wrong to not dress tznius, or that they didn't go to yeshiva to learn, what do you answer when your kids follow up with, "so why don't we just tell them?"
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Mon, May 03 2021, 11:22 pm
Because it does not work like that- adults decide for themselves.
Have had kids ask me so why do we know and told them we r fortunate maybe zechus avos
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amother




Pink
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 3:19 am
Just curious, for those of you who would tell your kids -
We do this, they do that. Neither of us is right or wrong. You can choose to do whatever you want.

Did all of you vote Democrat?
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juggling




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 3:54 am
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
Just curious, for those of you who would tell your kids -
We do this, they do that. Neither of us is right or wrong. You can choose to do whatever you want.

Did all of you vote Democrat?

Almost nobody said what you just quoted. The approach is that the *relatives* made different choices than we did, and *we* are not to judge *them*. That's not to say we think their choices are valid, just they aren't our business. This is basic Dan l'kaf zchut mentality. We don't judge. We love people without judging their choices. The end.

Oh, and I am no Democrat.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 5:15 am
juggling wrote:
It's not about whether it's a lie. It's condescending. I assume you wouldn't say that to their face, right? Then don't say it behind their backs, either.

Honestly it's condescending to say that your truth is the only truth, and if only people would open their eyes everyone would believe like you do. You can believe in your own truth, and even believe it to be the ultimate truth, while still understanding that not everyone sees things that way.


Are you claiming there are Orthodox Rabbis who permit women to wear bikinis in front of men???

Because that is what OP is referring to. And I am sure ALL Orthodox Rabbis say it is ossur.
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juggling




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 5:21 am
#BestBubby wrote:
Are you claiming there are Orthodox Rabbis who permit women to wear bikinis in front of men???

Because that is what OP is referring to. And I am sure ALL Orthodox Rabbis say it is ossur.

I said nothing about Orthodox Rabbis allowing anything. I'm talking about even someone who lights matches on Shabbos. They obviously don't believe it's important for them to keep Shabbos, for whatever reason. And we don't judge them for it.

Again, I may believe it's absolutely imperative for every Jew to keep Shabbos, but I can respect the other enough to know that they don't agree with me. I can see things from their perspective. Doesn't mean I agree with them, it means I don't judge them for their position.
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juggling




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 5:25 am
#BestBubby wrote:
Are you claiming there are Orthodox Rabbis who permit women to wear bikinis in front of men???

Because that is what OP is referring to. And I am sure ALL Orthodox Rabbis say it is ossur.

Btw, do you have friends who aren't Jewish? Who keep a different religion? You think they are wrong, they think you are wrong, but you can leave that out of the relationship. If you found out that they were telling their kids the reason you don't keep their religion is because you, nebach, have not seen the light, that would probably make it hard to continue a respectful relationship.
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Shuly




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 7:49 am
juggling wrote:
Almost nobody said what you just quoted. The approach is that the *relatives* made different choices than we did, and *we* are not to judge *them*. That's not to say we think their choices are valid, just they aren't our business. This is basic Dan l'kaf zchut mentality. We don't judge. We love people without judging their choices. The end.

Oh, and I am no Democrat.


There is a way to give over to children the feeling of being proud of who we are and of our ability to make the right choices without being condescending to and hurting those who are doing the wrong thing.

Maybe it's hard to convey in writing, so if the OP thinks that the right thing to do is to tell her kids that it's ok to dress contrary to halacha, I recommend that she calls a mentor to learn how to properly be mechanech her children.
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juggling




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 8:07 am
Shuly wrote:
There is a way to give over to children the feeling of being proud of who we are and of our ability to make the right choices without being condescending to and hurting those who are doing the wrong thing.

Maybe it's hard to convey in writing, so if the OP thinks that the right thing to do is to tell her kids that it's ok to dress contrary to halacha, I recommend that she calls a mentor to learn how to properly be mechanech her children.

But I never implied that's what she should tell her kids!!! I didn't say we should say what they're doing is okay. Just that that's what they do, and we don't judge. Kids are able to implicitly understand that what *we* do is what we believe to be correct, even if other people disagree, and we don't judge them for their position. Not judging our fellow does not necessarily amount to agreeing with them!!
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Shuly




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 8:28 am
juggling wrote:
But I never implied that's what she should tell her kids!!! I didn't say we should say what they're doing is okay. Just that that's what they do, and we don't judge. Kids are able to implicitly understand that what *we* do is what we believe to be correct, even if other people disagree, and we don't judge them for their position. Not judging our fellow does not necessarily amount to agreeing with them!!


Not you, I was responding to the posters who wrote this:

    "Different rabbanim do hold different things are permissible."

    "They do things differently than we do."

    “Every family listens to their Rav."

    "Everyone has their own way of following Torah and listening to Hashem."

    "Different communities have a different idea of what is and isn’t modest."

    "Just because everyone does not do what we do does not mean that they are wrong or we are right. When you are old enough you will decide what community you want to belong to"
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juggling




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 8:32 am
Shuly wrote:
Not you, I was responding to the posters who wrote this:

    "Different rabbanim do hold different things are permissible."

    "They do things differently than we do."

    “Every family listens to their Rav."

    "Everyone has their own way of following Torah and listening to Hashem."

    "Different communities have a different idea of what is and isn’t modest."

    "Just because everyone does not do what we do does not mean that they are wrong or we are right. When you are old enough you will decide what community you want to belong to"

The only one of those statements I'm comfortable with is "they do things differently than we do." It's factually true and completely nonjudgmental. It doesn't say they're wrong, it also doesn't say they're right. Different. The end.
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Shuly




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 8:41 am
juggling wrote:
The only one of those statements I'm comfortable with is "they do things differently than we do." It's factually true and completely nonjudgmental. It doesn't say they're wrong, it also doesn't say they're right. Different. The end.


I would be ok with that if she added something along the lines of, B"H you are so lucky to be able to learn what the Torah says.
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amother




Taupe
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 8:42 am
This might be a very unpopular opinion, but my goodness, I do not understand why are we scared of telling our children that someone is doing something wrong?

I have relatives who are openly gay, women who wear pants, don't cover their hair, drive on shabbos, etc and I am very clear with my children that what they are doing is WRONG! No rudeness, no condescension, but clear boundaries. We can strongly disagree with choices others make without being rude or disrespectful to them as a person.
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amother




Green
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 8:48 am
juggling wrote:
Btw, do you have friends who aren't Jewish? Who keep a different religion? You think they are wrong, they think you are wrong, but you can leave that out of the relationship. If you found out that they were telling their kids the reason you don't keep their religion is because you, nebach, have not seen the light, that would probably make it hard to continue a respectful relationship.


No. It doesn't work like this. Other religions have their framework for living. But if someone is hindu it buddhist and sacrificing coca cola to their statue and home based shrine ... I'd tell my child that's wrong. I guess that makes me intolerant and bigoted lol.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 9:15 am
samantha87 wrote:
To all those who answer that they just don't know it's wrong to not dress tznius, or that they didn't go to yeshiva to learn, what do you answer when your kids follow up with, "so why don't we just tell them?"


You have holy kids.
They should know that it's not so simple. Otherwise we wouldn't need teshuva. We're all human. And this is a bit sophisticated but you could explain nekudas habechira to them.
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amother




Yellow
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 9:34 am
#BestBubby wrote:
This answer makes it sound like keeping the Torah is optional - everyone do what you want.

Then a child might Ch"V think that keeping Shobbos or marrying a Jew is optional.

Wearing long sleeves and tights in 99 degree weather is not from the Torah.
I am very confident that I teach my children the values that I believe are important, but if a child of mine chooses not to keep Shabbat, that is his/her decision and my children know how I feel about it. I love my children unconditionally.
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amother




Yellow
 

Post Tue, May 04 2021, 9:40 am
amother [ Green ] wrote:
I don't know why they don't dress tznius. It's not the right to do. That's really between them and Hashem. It doesn't change that they're family and we love them.

Just this Shabbat my son asked grandma why she pulled up to our house in her car. He saw her drive and he was crushed. She said "I know that the Torah says not to drive on Shabbat. I know it's not the right thing to do. I am old and I never kept shabbat and now I'm too old to walk to you. I hope Hashem forgives me. I know Hashem loves me. You are so lucky that you have an imma and abba that keep shabbat and make it special for you." You know what? He crawled into her lap had a snuggle and didn't think twice about that answer

I respect my mother and respect her answer. I'm more frustrated by family members that don't keep tznius or shabbat even by the most liberal MO standards and then call themselves frum. Swimming on shabbat may be do-able if you really look it up and plan it well (and extremely difficult to do in the local public pool). Slip and slides on the lawn are not ok. I don't know what rav can find the wiggle room around turning a sprinkler on to play in the yard on shabbat. Jeans and pants might be ok. Especially these days as quite a few men are walking around wearing skirts anyway. But let's not delude ourselves or our kids and claim that our diverse and somewhat frum family members have a teshuva that allows for bikinis in mixed company.

We are close to them and love them dearly. We do not confuse ourselves or our kids by claiming anything other than "we don't know why they do it. It's none of our business. We follow our hashkafa and standards. It doesn't change our love for them"

Love your moms answer ♥️
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