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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 6:10 pm
While homeschooling them? We have an almost 4 year old, 2 yr old and a baby (all boys) and we want to teach them. My husband will teach Hebrew subjects and I'll teach them English. He already started with Alef beis flashcards and I'm teaching ABC's, numbers etc. It's not so consistent yet but I was told by a Rav yesterday that we are doing a disservice by not having them be with other kids. He said older kids who were fully homeschooled are socially off. How accurate is that??
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enneamom




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 6:16 pm
Alef Bais and ABC are one thing, but unless you have training in education or special education, how will you ensure they build the proper skills? It's not just a matter of reading, writing and 'rithmetic. There are a lot of under-the-radar skills that are methodically woven into a school experience which, unless you have that background, training and support, you will be completely unaware of.
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BrisketBoss




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 6:16 pm
I've never met a homeschooled adult who was off. Teenagers and young adults who were first joining a 'normal' class, yes, but they learn.

I think it's important to keep in mind that it's not a life skill for a child or teenager to be able to talk to other children or teenagers in a totally normal way. I myself had trouble with really wanting to talk to my peers when I was that age. And homeschooled kids are often better at talking to people in a diverse age range that other kids their age are not as comfortable with.


Last edited by BrisketBoss on Thu, May 06 2021, 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Red
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 6:17 pm
Yes- our most outstandingly socially adept kids were in fact homeschooled until seminary/yeshiva- it can depend upon the reasons, the kid, the parents, the community and other individual factors.
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amother




Blue
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 6:34 pm
There are homeschooled kids who are very well socialized and homeschooled kids who are not. It depends on two main things - the natural personality of the child and how good you are at creating social opportunities for your children. There are so many opportunities in my community for homeschooling families to connect, do activities together, learn together, etc. Plus my kids have their regular neighborhood friends. Nobody comes out "off" just because they were homeschooled. I tend to see most homeschooled kids as very independent, mature, bright and totally socially capable. Again, depends on personality and creating opportunity.
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amother




White
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 6:39 pm
amother [ Blue ] wrote:
There are homeschooled kids who are very well socialized and homeschooled kids who are not. It depends on two main things - the natural personality of the child and how good you are at creating social opportunities for your children. There are so many opportunities in my community for homeschooling families to connect, do activities together, learn together, etc. Plus my kids have their regular neighborhood friends. Nobody comes out "off" just because they were homeschooled. I tend to see most homeschooled kids as very independent, mature, bright and totally socially capable. Again, depends on personality and creating opportunity.

Also there are regular-schooled kids who are very well socialized and regular-schooled kids who are not. It depends on sooo many things.

We started homeschooling BECAUSE of the social issues in school, that we saw were not unique to a specific school, because it was in at least 3. It is taken to be standard, normal - I guess we have high standards for mentchlichkeit. (Maybe it is a culture gap, we don't live in the USA.)
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amother




Royalblue
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 6:41 pm
YES I know a homeschooled family that is AMAZING. One daughter joined my high school and totally fit right in.
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OOTforlife




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 6:49 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
He said older kids who were fully homeschooled are socially off. How accurate is that??

It depends on what he meant.

There are general human social skills, such as reading facial expressions, being sensitive to changes in body language and tone of voice, and reciprocation. I think homeschoolers can develop these just fine.

But to socialize successfully in a specific community, you may need to know a lot of community-specific things and understand community-specific cues. These may be difficult to develop without spending lots and lots of hours in the company of other community members. The more conformist the community, the more important this kind of social competency will be. The rabbi may have been referring to this as "social skills," even though I think it's probably not the most precise wording.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 6:59 pm
Thank you for all of your responses.
I guess I'll get down to it bc I'm anonymous anyways. OK- We may sound overly protective (and I'll accept it if I am) and maybe extreme but here goes:
-We're both worried about exposure, which obviously we have no worries while they're at home
-you never know who can do/say something inappropriate to them c"v. My oldest is a pure, innocent, sweet, smart boy and I'm just worried (thinking about leaving him in school). My husband and I got married "older" and could be the we know "too much " if that makes sense. Also having them home is stressful at times since we're their teachers, parents, chefs, clean up crew etc while I'm trying to get house chores done at the same time. So I guess that's where I'm feeling the stress with having them home but feel torn at the thought of sending them to school.
I told the Rav my concerns and he said to have good communication with our kids about how they are doing, what goes on in school so if something happens they'll tell us. He said we can't protect them forever, they need to be among society and see chutzpadik kids and learn right from wrong otherwise they'll have a rude awakening when they get older and are forced into the world. That makes total sense. Haven't discussed seriously with my husband yet bc I know he really doesn't want to send them to school. Any thoughts after I clarified some things??
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mizle10




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 7:07 pm
Honestly, your Rav is right.
I really don’t see that as a reason to homeschool. You’re going to have to let go. Wether it’s now, next year or in 10 years. You can’t shelter your children from the world forever.
Also, while filtering out the bad, you are filtering out so much beauty. The opportunity to learn from rebbeim, the beauty of a class davening out loud together, the joy of receiving a chumosh from your rebbe at a chumosh siyum. There is so much beauty and joy woven into our school system!! It seems selfish to deprive your children of that, plus the social aspect, because you want to coddle them forever.
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trixx




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 7:10 pm
Here are my thoughts that I will freely share, bc you are anonymous.

You sound a little overprotective, like a lawnmower parent (not the same as helicopter, here you mow the grass like a red carpet ahead of the kids) and it concerns me that you might not be so "normal" and hence the kids won't be so "normal".

As in, it's not a social norm to homeschool, in most communities. This is has nothing to do with homeschooling itself and everything to do with the community. So if it's not accepted practice then yeah your kids will probably be the weirdos.

I don't agree with the rav that kids have to be subjected to hard knocks in life but I wonder if this is what he means and is trying to be nice. Al tifrosh min hatzibor.

From an educational perspective, you don't sound prepared at all. Homeschooling requires routine and rhythm, involving kids in household chores and incorporating the learning, lots of readiness on your part.

If you're teaching letters from flashcards then you're failing already. Sorry if that's mean but it's the truth. It's a terrible way to teach literacy and it shows that you don't know what you're doing here.

You also need a huge support system. Virtual is fine. But you need a plan and resources.

Unprepared, you will quickly burn out. Your home won't be happy, your kids won't be happy. Be a good mom and let someone else be the teacher.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 7:54 pm
trixx wrote:
Here are my thoughts that I will freely share, bc you are anonymous.

You sound a little overprotective, like a lawnmower parent (not the same as helicopter, here you mow the grass like a red carpet ahead of the kids) and it concerns me that you might not be so "normal" and hence the kids won't be so "normal".

As in, it's not a social norm to homeschool, in most communities. This is has nothing to do with homeschooling itself and everything to do with the community. So if it's not accepted practice then yeah your kids will probably be the weirdos.

I don't agree with the rav that kids have to be subjected to hard knocks in life but I wonder if this is what he means and is trying to be nice. Al tifrosh min hatzibor.

From an educational perspective, you don't sound prepared at all. Homeschooling requires routine and rhythm, involving kids in household chores and incorporating the learning, lots of readiness on your part.

If you're teaching letters from flashcards then you're failing already. Sorry if that's mean but it's the truth. It's a terrible way to teach literacy and it shows that you don't know what you're doing here.

You also need a huge support system. Virtual is fine. But you need a plan and resources.

Unprepared, you will quickly burn out. Your home won't be happy, your kids won't be happy. Be a good mom and let someone else be the teacher.


I only said "anonymous" bc I'm embarrassed that I'm "scared to send them to school" not so you can use that as an invitation to berate me and tell me that I'm not normal and my kids c"v won't be and wtvr else came to your mind that you shared without a filter
My kids are very "normal" and I am your typical Bais Yaakov girl who the only difference I see outright with some of my friends is that they have teenagers and I don't bc I got married at 30 (BH). I understand you want to help me and I will consider your advice nonetheless but wish you would be more sensitive in the future to someone else.
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amother




Red
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 8:07 pm
I hear you Op.
Nothing is in stone. We have found that often the kids who begin school, assuming there is a good school as an option, at their youngest ages can have a bit of advantage socially with their class/grade as they are all starting together on the ground floor. We successfully homeschooled as an alternative and at our kids' requests some of our kids based on certain ongoing situations in certain grades/schools. I think my point is that we are "overprotective" and happily so yet we homeschooled following our kids' lead. And yes part of our process is to let go and let them have the advantages of camp, school, programs, shul, overnight camp, activities etc davening that we have built a strong open foundation and communication. Challenging in this day and age. Typically the benefits outweigh the risks. No guarantees no matter what we choose so we choose the best educated decision.
If you have a rav you trust and you check out the school and its good or good enough you might want to heed his advice, though yours is the final decision, and its true that a good frum school can offer advantages socially and communally speaking that homeschooling might not or would have to work much harder to provide. I would work to network with other like minded parents and kids and the like. And of course daven daven daven.
You sound like an awesome thoughtful parent. Rather than "overprotective" I like the word "on top of things Smile
Hugs and hatzlocha
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 8:20 pm
amother [ Red ] wrote:
I hear you Op.
Nothing is in stone. We have found that often the kids who begin school, assuming there is a good school as an option, at their youngest ages can have a bit of advantage socially with their class/grade as they are all starting together on the ground floor. We successfully homeschooled as an alternative and at our kids' requests some of our kids based on certain ongoing situations in certain grades/schools. I think my point is that we are "overprotective" and happily so yet we homeschooled following our kids' lead. And yes part of our process is to let go and let them have the advantages of camp, school, programs, shul, overnight camp, activities etc davening that we have built a strong open foundation and communication. Challenging in this day and age. Typically the benefits outweigh the risks. No guarantees no matter what we choose so we choose the best educated decision.
If you have a rav you trust and you check out the school and its good or good enough you might want to heed his advice, though yours is the final decision, and its true that a good frum school can offer advantages socially and communally speaking that homeschooling might not or would have to work much harder to provide. I would work to network with other like minded parents and kids and the like. And of course daven daven daven.
You sound like an awesome thoughtful parent. Rather than "overprotective" I like the word "on top of things Smile
Hugs and hatzlocha


Thanks so much for your thoughts and advice on this matter Smile
I will definitely ask friends who send to this school how they like it etc and will continue to daven for siyata dishmaya in making this decision.
Amein!
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 9:09 pm
I am a SEIT/Teacher and I disagree with those who say a parent can't educate as well
as a professional teacher.

Teaching 1:1 or very small group (siblings) is the BEST way to learn.

Regarding Social Issues - Homeschooling is looked at as "weird" in frum circles and some
worry that it may effect their children's shidduchim.

You can Home-School for elementary school and send your children to Yeshiva/BY for High School
if this is a concern.

Children make friends in a few ways: 1. School 2. Neighbors 3. Cousins 4. Bungalow Colonies
5. Camp and Day Camp 6. Seminary

So school is not the only place (although it is the main place) where children make friends.
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trixx




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 9:29 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I only said "anonymous" bc I'm embarrassed that I'm "scared to send them to school" not so you can use that as an invitation to berate me and tell me that I'm not normal and my kids c"v won't be and wtvr else came to your mind that you shared without a filter
My kids are very "normal" and I am your typical Bais Yaakov girl who the only difference I see outright with some of my friends is that they have teenagers and I don't bc I got married at 30 (BH). I understand you want to help me and I will consider your advice nonetheless but wish you would be more sensitive in the future to someone else.


I apologize that you were hurt, which I didn't intend. I didn't mean to "berate" you or share "whatevers on my mind without a filter" bc you're anonymous, what I meant was, I will specifically answer the question purely hypothetically and without anything personal intended, since I don't know who's asking it, so obviously I'm not insinuating that you yourself are _____.

I also didn't say that a parent cannot become a teacher. In fact I think homeschooling is the way to go, the school system is terrible. But you do have to be prepared.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 9:48 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I am a SEIT/Teacher and I disagree with those who say a parent can't educate as well
as a professional teacher.

Teaching 1:1 or very small group (siblings) is the BEST way to learn.

Regarding Social Issues - Homeschooling is looked at as "weird" in frum circles and some
worry that it may effect their children's shidduchim.

You can Home-School for elementary school and send your children to Yeshiva/BY for High School
if this is a concern.

Children make friends in a few ways: 1. School 2. Neighbors 3. Cousins 4. Bungalow Colonies
5. Camp and Day Camp 6. Seminary

So school is not the only place (although it is the main place) where children make friends.


Thank you for commenting!

The Rav who I discussed this with also mentioned the shidduch aspect and mentioned that he knows a boy who's having trouble finding a shidduch (he was homeschooled) but has the finest middos etc. I don't really think one thing equals the next but do agree that we need to prepare seriously (in all aspects) if this is what we will be doing.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 9:59 pm
trixx wrote:
I apologize that you were hurt, which I didn't intend. I didn't mean to "berate" you or share "whatevers on my mind without a filter" bc you're anonymous, what I meant was, I will specifically answer the question purely hypothetically and without anything personal intended, since I don't know who's asking it, so obviously I'm not insinuating that you yourself are _____.

I also didn't say that a parent cannot become a teacher. In fact I think homeschooling is the way to go, the school system is terrible. But you do have to be prepared.


Thank you for clarifying Smile

I was in the regular school system and I still have negative feelings when thinking of elementary school. It effected how I saw myself throughout highschool and seminary and worked hard to build myself from that experience. I know that many kids thrive in school and I love the idea of my kids having a Rebbi with siddur and Chumash parties it's just I also think if we can do it why not? But again, we have a lot of work to do to prepare and ultimately Hashem will guide us to make the right decision be'H.
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amother




Seagreen
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 10:05 pm
If I were you, I’d research all the local boys’ schools and go check them out. If you still feel very nervous about sending your son, then by all means, you have nothing to loose by starting out with homeschool. Your oldest is still very young. You can take it year by year, and if it’s not working out, then you’ll send him to school and he will quickly catch up socially.
As others said, there are children who are socially fine and children not fine both in school and in homeschool. At the end of the day, it’s more about their personalities and how much you encourage social opportunities. In our homeschool community, I see many amazing teenagers who successfully transitioned to yeshiva/college/sem/adulthood bH!
Also, if you do homeschool, make sure you really want it, or you will begin to resent it quickly.
Hatzlacha!
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amother




Seagreen
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 10:09 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you for clarifying Smile

I was in the regular school system and I still have negative feelings when thinking of elementary school. It effected how I saw myself throughout highschool and seminary and worked hard to build myself from that experience. I know that many kids thrive in school and I love the idea of my kids having a Rebbi with siddur and Chumash parties it's just I also think if we can do it why not? But again, we have a lot of work to do to prepare and ultimately Hashem will guide us to make the right decision be'H.

Also, just because you homeschool, doesn’t mean you have to do it all on your own. Many homeschoolers learn with a rebbi, whether one-on-one or in a small group, at a certain point. Talk to other homeschoolers in your city and gather lots of information before making a decision.
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