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Why do some against the covid vacc believe debunkable ideas?
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amother
Black


 

Post Mon, May 10 2021, 11:30 pm
I just asked my anti-vax friend about the vaccine shedding and she sent me this link https://www.northportwellnessc.....4.mp4
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HealthCoach




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 10 2021, 11:39 pm
Quote:
I just asked my anti-vax friend about the vaccine shedding and she sent me this link https://www.northportwellnessc.....4.mp4

I watched that yesterday. I don’t want to believe the shredding thing, but some of the doctors in that video have very impressive credentials. I was going to ask my doctor if he believes it.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Mon, May 10 2021, 11:40 pm
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
Theoretically they can be pathogenic just by the fact that they are a protein foreign to the human body and a catalyst for an immune response.


Pathogenic is defined as causing a disease, not an immune response. We are purposely generating an immune response to create antibodies by bypassing the disease route.
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Mon, May 10 2021, 11:47 pm
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
Pathogenic is defined as causing a disease, not an immune response. We are purposely generating an immune response to create antibodies by bypassing the disease route.
Pathogenic was the wrong word because a protein isn’t an organism but a lot of what we call disease is actually immune response. And I wasn’t just talking about antibody response, there may be other ways our bodies, immune system and other systems are interacting with this protein that is causing dis-ease.
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 12:26 am
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
The first paragraph is false. The risk for Hydroxychloroquinone is higher than azithromycin. A person's medical condition is carefully evaluated before being prescribed hcq. Even when hcq was originally being prescribed, there were patients for whom they were withheld from because of the risks involved. Dr. Zelenko personally refused to issue it to my father because of the risks involved. My father has no issues with the common antibiotic drugs.

Please note that I'm in the medical field as well as in biomedical sciences. The risks between the two drugs is not comparable. And as far as I know, there isn't a biological pathogenicity associated with isolated spike proteins. Why are you hesitant to release the information on a public forum, it's not private information? Because of my unique positions in this field, I would rather not expose my username. Please share them here.


It is not false. Studies have shown either minimal or no statistically significant risk of arrhythmia or QT prolongation in prescribing HCQ early on in the treatment of covid. A year ago, there was tremendous fear and doctors looked for risk factors and monitored with EKG. That is no longer routinely done afaik.

Since you mentioned Dr. Zelenko, he has stated that he consulted with an electrophysiologist who consulted with his own colleagues and advised Dr. Zelenko that there is no risk and no need to monitor or screen covid patients for cardiac arrhythmia or QT prolongation when prescribing HCQ. As I understand many doctors, including Dr. Zelenko, are currently prescribing HCQ by telemedicine I'm assuming there is no EKG monitoring.

Regarding the bolded. Before any new drug or vaccine is brought to market, the onus is on the manufacturer to prove safety, not the other way around. Until well designed studies demonstrate that spike shedding is not possible, it can't be ruled out.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 11:05 am
#BestBubby wrote:
OP, the study showing that Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) was FRAUDULENT and has been WITHDRAWN.

The Hydroxycloroquine protocol is to use HCQ IMMEDIATELY upon symptoms - HCQ is not
as effective in Curing Covid after FIVE Days. HCQ to be used TOGETHER with Zinc and Antibiotics.

The FAKE Study did not give HCQ until patient was very sick and had to hospitalized.
It was waaaaay after 5 days since symptoms so now HCQ is not effective.
And it was not combined with Zinc and Antibiotics.

Worse, doctors gave a MASSIVE OVERDOSE of HCQ.

OP, is that proof HCQ is dangerous???

If I give people MASSIVE OVERDOSES of ASPIRIN and they die,
does that make aspirin dangerous???

When people see such blatant fraud, they see the Propoganda is from the Pro-Vax side
and we are not being fooled.


OP, please respond to the above post.

In my opinion it is the pro-vaxxers who have been fooled by propaganda.

OP, if you know HISTORY, you know that government always lies to the people and uses
propaganda. Nothing new here.
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amother
Black


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 1:04 pm
I just had time to watch this video https://www.northportwellnessc.....4.mp4 Some really solid theories as to why and how the vaccine causing infertility and about the shedding Op was asking. I too like op thought these theories were made up by random bloggers, but these Drs. and nurses have serious credentials. I will ask my Dr. about this but I feel like these people understand the vaccine a million times more than her.
I would love for others to watch it as I want to hear your opinions.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 1:09 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
S/O other thread.

Just curious. You're all up in arms trusting vaccine manufacturers as they push an agenda. That's fair.

Why do you blindly trust a bunch of blog articles that also push an agenda? How do you just swallow a bunch of myths and partial truths? Where is your cynicism then?

I really want to understand. This has been confusing me for a long time.

Why are you assuming that anyone who is weary of the vaccine is reading and believing these blogs? I got one am very weary, and have never read a single one of these blogs. I am not anti vaxx, but I do feel like some are pointless, and I do delay because I feel that it’s too much to put into anyone’s body all at once. I am vaccine cautious, without ever having read a blog or whatever.
I also don’t trust the cdc as far as I can throw my 14 year old.
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 4:08 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Just referring to the one about the vacc'd spreading the illness: it goes against everything I've learned in molecular biology.

Or hydroxychloroquine, which people on this site still mention sometimes, which has been shown to have serious side effects. No, I don't think the FDA is holding out on us with that one.

I can list more if you'd like. But that's not the point.


Here's a question that I think gets to the root of the issue.

How do you distinguish between a conspiracy theory and a hypothesis?

Eta. That, and also the fact that some things actually have not been debunked, ex. HCQ is widely regarded as safe for treating covid.
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 4:28 pm
Repeat something enough, with enough feeling, on something people feel passionate about, and humans will suspend any rational disbelief and run with it. That's how the stab-in-the-back myth succeeded too.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 5:01 pm
Laiya wrote:
I believe the evidence is hcq is effective only when given early in the disease, and only when together with zinc. That was what was claimed all along. I don't think any studies showed hcq is not effective under those circumstances, and the risk is miniscule.


I heard the study that debunked it gave such a high dosage, majorly more than the dr's who figured out that this works were using. I am sure the dosages to compare are available somewhere.

I do not believe it is a cure to covid, but I do believe the study was stacked.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 5:03 pm
amother [ Pewter ] wrote:
Also, saying that immunity wears off is just to scare people. I had covid a year ago and have strong immunity.


Sars the original virus shows immunity still lasting in recovered patients 17 years later. It is very inconclusive to say now a prediction on this viruses immunity lasting. In 17 years they will know better the vaccine long term affects.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 5:10 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
I just asked my anti-vax friend about the vaccine shedding and she sent me this link https://www.northportwellnessc.....4.mp4


I heard about this too. It is the craziest and most unbelievable thing I have ever heard. If it is true it will be breathtakingly shocking. But I heard too many reliable anecdotes. I think it is worth keeping on the radar.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 5:21 pm
HealthCoach wrote:
Quote:
Why do you blindly trust a bunch of blog articles that also push an agenda? How do you just swallow a bunch of myths and partial truths? Where is your cynicism then?


I read blogs and articles written by doctors I know and trust. I might decide to trust someone new who aligns with a doctor I already trust, but I don’t trust any random thing I come across, and I take the writer’s motive into account.

I know people harmed by other vaccines, so I already know that a vaccine can harm. I have positive experiences with natural healing.

It would be impossible for anyone to convince me this vaccine is perfectly safe without studies on the long term effects. When someone questions why no one is looking into the 3500 deaths that can be seen on CDC website, I question too. I give my kids the other vaccines. The CDC has more reports of deaths after the covid vaccine in 4 months than all the vaccines combined over 20 years.


Well said, ita.

I trust the same doctors I trusted before covid.

When medical ethics and morals are convoluted by conflict of interest based in politics and profits, the only one I will trust is the individual Drs I know and trusted before.

I cannot understand how Dr Fauci who owns a peice of the patent personally can be in his job. That is akin to putting family members of plaintiffs and defendants on a jury during a trial. That patent is his baby.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 5:21 pm
Laiya wrote:
Here's a question that I think gets to the root of the issue.

How do you distinguish between a conspiracy theory and a hypothesis?

Eta. That, and also the fact that some things actually have not been debunked, ex. HCQ is widely regarded as safe for treating covid.


Study after study has shown that HCQ does not reduce covid deaths or the need for ventilation. See https://www.cochranelibrary.co...../full

That's how we differentiate.

When study after study shows that the original hypothesis is inaccurate, but you dig in and accuse those conducting the studies of falsifying results, accepting only the original hypothesis and any apocryphal support, you've entered into the land of confirmation bias and conspiracy theories.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 5:28 pm
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
Well said, ita.

I trust the same doctors I trusted before covid.

When medical ethics and morals are convoluted by conflict of interest based in politics and profits, the only one I will trust is the individual Drs I know and trusted before.

I cannot understand how Dr Fauci who owns a peice of the patent personally can be in his job. That is akin to putting family members of plaintiffs and defendants on a jury during a trial. That patent is his baby.


Please provide support for your claim that Anthony Fauci owns a part of a patent in a covid vaccine.

While right wing conspiracy sites have made that claim, its just not true. (Please note that this is not an attack on all right wing sites, just on sites like InfoWars.) The NIH may own some of the IP used in the Moderna vaccine, but certainly not Fauci. See, eg, https://factcheck.thedispatch......atent

But if you have proof otherwise, bring it on.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 5:31 pm
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
I heard about this too. It is the craziest and most unbelievable thing I have ever heard. If it is true it will be breathtakingly shocking. But I heard too many reliable anecdotes. I think it is worth keeping on the radar.


This is why we need to teach science in our schools in the US.

Vaccine shedding can ONLY happen when the vaccine is a live attenuated virus vaccine.

mRNA vaccines can't shed because they don't include the virus.

The J&J vaccine (along with every other vaccine used for covid) can't shed because its not live virus.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 5:37 pm
DUPLICATE
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 5:43 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
This is why we need to teach science in our schools in the US.

Vaccine shedding can ONLY happen when the vaccine is a live attenuated virus vaccine.

mRNA vaccines can't shed because they don't include the virus.

The J&J vaccine (along with every other vaccine used for covid) can't shed because its not live virus.
So do you want to coin a new term for the spike proteins that are being found in the mucous and saliva of recently vaccinated people and ostensibly passed on to close contacts that way? Or will shedding suffice?
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Tue, May 11 2021, 5:53 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
This is why we need to teach science in our schools in the US.

Vaccine shedding can ONLY happen when the vaccine is a live attenuated virus vaccine.

mRNA vaccines can't shed because they don't include the virus.

The J&J vaccine (along with every other vaccine used for covid) can't shed because its not live virus.


No one supposes it sheds the virus, not one made that claim. It is the spike proteins that the cells are making that they think might be shedding and affecting others. The spike protien itself, not the virus. It is just bizarre.
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