School tuition thoughts

Ema of 5

Wed, May 12 2021, 1:48 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I was pondering my school tuition situation and couldn't help but post to hear what you lovely ladies have to say on the matter.

I live OOT where tuition is $10,000 (elementary) and only goes up from there. The schools work with you and it is pretty mainstream to receive a tuition break. I know this tuition is on the higher end of the range in the frum world but even $3,4,5,6,000 a child still supports my point.

Regardless, I cannot help but think that education system is a big oxymoron. On the one hand, we need to send our children to school to receive a fine Jewish education. Part of that education (at least in my understanding) is to give tzedaka, support jewish causes (shuls, schools, other organizations), live modestly (not ostentatiously), and be a contributing member of our Jewish society in general.

On the other hand, the schools are setting the "money bar" SO high. For me, even 1 or 2 children at full tuition tuition is extremely difficult to manage. More than that is not possible. I must ask for a break. In other places, where the tuition is less, maybe it is manageable for a few children, but any more sounds impossible to me as well.

So, what it seems is that we are expected to:
1) Make a huge salary (somehow)
2) Hand it over to our schools
3) Live on tight budgets, very simply, with financial stress whole making 6 figure salaries

Does anyone else see how this is not fair? Expect people to work SO hard and make SO much money, only to hand it all over and live like paupers (or close to it).

Yes, sending your children to private school is a choice. Yes, schools are usually desperate for money and in difficult financial situations. But something is not adding up here.

I would love to hear other's perspectives!

amother

Brown

Wed, May 12 2021, 3:34 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

No one is wealthy, paying full tuition and live an extremely budgeted life...

Anyway - yes for many years people work to support their family, which means paying for children's education. Once you accept that idea - its not really so hard to fathom all this.

You many not believe this - but people can both make six digit salaries and not be materialistic.

I don't know.
Take a family that makes 200k.
After taxes 160k.
6 kids at 10k apiece. 100k.
Mortgage on a decent, not fancy house, including utilities, homeowners insurance, taxes 3k a month- 36k. 64k
Health insurance at 1500 a month 18k. 46k.
Daycamps (because the parents both work) $1000 per child. 40k.
That leaves just $3333 a month for food, clothing, gas, car insurance, Pesach, Yom tov, Simchas, discretionary and savings.

So yeah, a family with 6 kids making 200k a year will have to live tightly and budgeted.

These are approximate numbers of course.

amother

Smokey

Wed, May 12 2021, 3:40 pm

It’s funny. I exactly match up to the scenario drawn above. Approx gross 200k, 6 kids.
We don’t live close to a luxury lifestyle.

I look at it that investing in my kids Jewish education is my most valuable investment. That is what o work for.

After 120 I’ll take nothing with me. The house, clothing, jewelry, vacations. All get left behind.

I will have zechusim of my children’s education.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, May 12 2021, 3:40 pm

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

I agree. 200K a year is a nice living too - but its not 'wealthy' status.

Having 6 kids however - makes a family very wealthy.

amother

Brown

Wed, May 12 2021, 3:47 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

I agree. 200K a year is a nice living too - but its not 'wealthy' status.

Having 6 kids however - makes a family very wealthy.

But I think thats OP's point.
Or at least my takeaway.
A family will be making a 6 digit amount- 200k, and paying tuition for 6 kids and scrambling at the end of the month.
People hear 6 digit salary, oh they must be wealthy.
Nope. Just managing..not luxuries.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, May 12 2021, 4:00 pm

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

expectations and assumptions...

amother

Smokey

Wed, May 12 2021, 4:43 pm

amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:

Why is tuition so high in your schools?

Chassidishe schools are between 4-5K. And after all the programs they receive they pocket money too.
What expenses do you have that they don't?

Don’t chassidim pay into their chassidus. The wealthy giving more. Even older ppl with no kids. And this helps support the schools.
No school is existing on 4K per kid alone.

(Besides MO schools have science labs, computers labs, gyms, stem programs, licensed teachers - so the costs aren’t comparable)

amother

Amber

Wed, May 12 2021, 4:49 pm

You seem to think that making 6 figures means you’ve made it financially, and therefore should live comfortably.
I grew up frum, and always knew that 100k gets you nowhere in the frum world even if in the secular world it does.
My father used to say you need 250k to live comfortably with a large family. Obviously a lot has to do with family size, location, etc. but dh and I know we need to hustle and get there if we’re going to make it with breathing room.
We’re at about 150k now with young kids, and do not feel in any way like we’ve “made it”.

amother

Brown

Wed, May 12 2021, 4:50 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

And NY, and to a lesser degree NJ have a huge frum voter Bloc so they advocate for many funded programs- therapies, tutors, textbooks, bussing, shadows, etc.
OOT schools do not have those benefits and the schools have to pay (and charge) for many of these services.

amother

Bronze

Wed, May 12 2021, 5:12 pm

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

I live in Ohio, in a city where elementary tuition is about $11,000 per year, but vouchers cover $4650 per year. Even with the vouchers, there are not too many families who pay full tuition. The schools do a lot of fundraising and also get some funds from the broader Jewish community.

But I don't see that our schools are overcharging. If anything, I suspect the cost per student may be higher than even the full tuition.

Isn't the voucher only if you qualify with low income?

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, May 12 2021, 5:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The whole voucher situation is an exception. And I am not accusing schools of overcharging. I am not a school financial administrator. I cannot comment on that specifically and I trust most are doing the best they can to run their schools.

Her point still stands. Despite vouchers, the cost of tuition is less than the cost to educate a child, at least where I am.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, May 12 2021, 5:19 pm

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

As someone who’s family owns 2 large elementary schools. They should be money making institutions if they are run efficiently and correctly. And tuition is standard by us (standard is high). There’s fundraising specifically for the tuition fund and tremendous amount of resources invested in getting lots of govt funding.

If you cram students into a class, that helps cut costs.
Government money comes with strings attached. A lot of it is helpful but it doesn't necessarily help pay the necessities in a frum school.

amother

Chocolate

Wed, May 12 2021, 5:46 pm

amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:

Why is tuition so high in your schools?

Chassidishe schools are between 4-5K. And after all the programs they receive they pocket money too.
What expenses do you have that they don't?

I'm not sure why this myth is constantly being repeated. I send my children to chassidish schools in Boro Park and pay about 5 and a half thousand for my boys and $6,000 for my girls. Bais Yaakov High School for my daughter next year is $8,000. You are also expected to give donations during the year.
Chassidish girl schools under pay their teachers, they are also funded by the chassidus when needed. A rich person belonging to a chassidus will give donations even if he doesn't have children in that school.

saw50st8

Wed, May 12 2021, 5:52 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

In 5 years I will have 3 kids in high school and 1 in elementary school. My tuition bill will be $100,000 (after taxes).

saw50st8

Wed, May 12 2021, 5:56 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

What is more important to spend money on then your kids education?
What is the goal to use the money for:
Vacations
Fancier food
Bigger house
Nicer clothing
More tzedakah

Which priorities are we budgeting so our kids will be lucky enough to learn Torah?

I work full time so my kids can go to yeshiva. My health has taken a huge toll but I can't stop working because we need the money. I value education over everything but sometimes I wonder if we as a community are doing the right thing.