Shiluach Hakan | Imamother

Sassonv'Simcha

Thu, May 27 2021, 2:26 pm

I believe it is a machlokus between the Chavos Yair siman 67 who says that even if one does not want the eggs they should do the mitzvah and the Chatam Sofer Meseches Chullin 142a who says there that the gemora there proves that if one does not want the eggs, they should not shoo the mother away, and derives that therefore it is prohibited to do shiluach hakan on Shabbas. (If you have a mitzvah even if you don't want the eggs, then you ought to be doing it on Shabbas, as the fact that it is Shabbas does not prevent you doing mitzvos d'orisa, and the prohibition of mutztah, which is d'rabbanan, does not stop you doing a mitzvah d'orisa. But if you can only do the mitzvah if you want the eggs, then there is nothing you can do with the eggs on Shabbas, so therefore you are not doing the mitzvah, and can't send away the mother on Shabbas).

Sassonv'Simcha

Thu, May 27 2021, 3:05 pm

Actually, I have just checked the Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah siman 292 - Shiluach HaKan) and he has a lot more on this:
3 If one is hurrying from work and sees on his way a nest of a bird that is sitting on her children, and there are those who say that it is forbidden for him to hide himself from fulfilling the mitzvah, and it is on him to send the mother that sits on the eggs [Chavos Yair]. And there are those who say that there is no obligation for this mitzvah except when he wants to take the children for his needs, but if he does not want them, for sure there is no mitzvah to send away the mother who is on the children and to leave the children there. [Ran, Meiri Rabbanu Bachaye, Knesset HaGedola, Chatam Sofer, Limudei HaShem, Hafla’ah, Merosh Kluger, Mehera’am Shik, Chazon Ish]. And there is one who adds that if he does not need the children it is not just that he is not obligated to send away the mother, but it is cruelty and considered tzar ba’alei chayim, to send away the mother from on her children that there is no purpose for it, and it is not for the need of a person. And tzar ba’alei chayim is a d’orisa (according to the Moreh Nevuchim). And it is good to be concerned and to take the children or the eggs. And so it is explained in the Holy Zohar that it is needed davka to take the children. That after he sends the mother she goes and screams and asks on her children, and an angel that is called bird arises the mercy of HKBH, and that arousal causes mercy on us in our galus [Yabiat Omer chelek 10 Chelek Yoreh Deah siman 32]

Thu, May 27 2021, 3:48 pm

Sassonv'Simcha wrote:

I am in absolute awe of your knowledge!!!

I wasn’t sure if the gloves business is true or a myth.
Personally I wouldn’t use the eggs as you wouldn’t know how developed they are and would probably have blood spots or more

Sassonv'Simcha

Thu, May 27 2021, 4:19 pm

s1 wrote:

The person whose knowledge you should be in awe of is Rav Ovadiah Yosef, who put together this list of sources, from which his son (Rav Yitzchak Yosef) put together his Kitzur, mostly quoting his father in an easy to read, concise form. All I did was look it up and translate it - and in a hurry, so that now when I look over the translation I am not very happy with it - I should have said "hurrying to work" rather than "hurrying from work" for example. I got the sense of it, but some bits of the translation were a bit odd, here is a better go:

"3 If one is hurrying to his work and sees on his way a nest of a bird that is sitting on her children, there are those who say that it is forbidden for him to hide himself from fulfilling the mitzvah, and it is on him to send the mother that sits on the children, even if he does not want the children or eggs [Chavos Yair]. And there are those who say that there is no obligation for this mitzvah except when he wants to take the children for his needs, but if he does not want them, for sure there is no mitzvah to send away the mother from on the children and to leave the children there. [Ran, Meiri Rabbanu Bachaye, Knesset HaGedola, Chasam Sofer, Limudei HaShem, Hafla’ah, Merosh Kluger, Mehera’am Shik, Chazon Ish]. And there is one who adds that if he does not need the children it is not just that he is not obligated to send away the mother, but it is cruelty and considered tzar ba’alei chayim, to send away the mother from on her children when there is no purpose for it, and it is not for the need of a person. And tzar ba’alei chayim is a d’orisa (according to the Moreh Nevuchim). And it is good to be concerned and to take the children or the eggs. And so it is explained in the Holy Zohar that it is needed davka to take the children. That after he sends the mother she goes and screams and asks on her children, and an angel that is called bird arouses the mercy of HKBH, and that arousal causes mercy on us in our galus [Yabia Omer chelek 10 Chelek Yoreh Deah siman 32]"

BadTichelDay

Thu, May 27 2021, 4:20 pm

Using the eggs?
Who has a mesorah today for any wild bird species? Unless it happens to be a wild goose, duck or turkey.
As far as I know, most people today don't even have a mesora for dove eggs.

Dh and I have discussed it and we hold that we don't do it - we go by the opinion quoted by a poster above, that it is tzar ba'alei chayim, as it is clear from the onset that we can't use the eggs or young birds. We have had doves and wild birds nesting around the house and garden and always left them well alone.

judyjew

Thu, May 27 2021, 8:32 pm

BadTichelDay wrote:

Sparrows, pigeons, quail are all kosher to eat. I'm sure there are more but can't remember. Maybe finch?
As long as you take it early enough so it doesn't start developing.