One more lace top thread sorry

Notsobusy

Sun, May 30 2021, 10:56 am

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Honey 36- your points are all so valid which is why I called Rav Forcheimer about the kol korei
That's why he told me all natural wigs are problematic. So I think women should call him and ask - since almost all the regular wigs are natural looking what's the difference? Why is a lace front asur and a regular wig not?
Women should really call and ask about it so we could some clarification

Rabbi Forcheimer is not the rav of the majority of women here. I would guess that most never even heard of him. You keep harping on this, but the best advice is that she should call her own rav and discuss it with him. There's no reason for her to call your rav.

amother

Mauve

Sun, May 30 2021, 10:56 am

Other- It's silly to fall for these bans.
Every day they come up with something else to ban.
In a few years from now this ban will be forgotten, and they will be on to the next thing.
Why get rid of it when it will blow over so fast?
Maybe if they would stick to banning only serious things that have sources, I will start taking it seriously.
As long as it's just another kol korei, it's having the opposite effect.

Ema of 5

Sun, May 30 2021, 10:58 am

Notsobusy wrote:

Exactly!!! Everyone should discuss it WITH THEIR OWN RAV if they feel the need. My rabbi doesn’t pasken for you, and yours doesn’t pasken for me.

Ema of 5

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:00 am

When was the last time one of these kol koreis was specific to men? I’m not talking about internet or smart phones, I mean something specific to men, that doesn’t apply to women....seems to me like women are always on the receiving end of these things, and never in a good way.

Last edited by Ema of 5 on Sun, May 30 2021, 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Cerise

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:04 am

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

But if you called, why didn't YOU clarify?

amother

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:05 am

Oh the joys of being the op. Everyone sums you and your agenda up in two seconds...
I think you'd be surprised to meet me - I'm not your picture of the frummie who's trying to ban wigs. Believe me when I say I am not here to judge. It's a huge challenge for me as well.

I was thinking about all the advertisements from the rabannim and how nobody seems to be caring about them, so it seems its a bit useless. I was hoping to be able to do something to strengthen women, but I first wanted to understand more.
If everyone's rav says it's ok, then there is no need to assur them. If it's a money thing, perhaps I could offer to buy people a new wig in exchange for the old one....

amother

Sapphire

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:06 am

Ema of 4 wrote:

When was the last time one of these bans was specific to men? I’m not talking about internet or smart phones, I mean something specific to men, that doesn’t apply to women....seems to me like women are always on the receiving end of these things, and never in a good way.

I don't understand this comment. If these are not your Rabbanim, why are you criticizing what they do? I'm not Satmar, is it OK if I come here and criticize the Satmar Rebbe for not allowing women to learn inside?

And it's not a BAN, it's a clarification of a psak.

amother

Coral

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:07 am

Because I'm confused- and I told Rav Forcheimer that.
I said that the wigs are natural looking without a lace front and he told me that's a problem. He said it cant be natural
So how do we define how unnatural a wig should be? If all natural looking wigs are problematic what does that mean?

amother

Natural

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:11 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You actually made your agenda quite clear in your OP. So yes all it took was two seconds because it took two seconds to read.

“ I was hoping to be able to do something to strengthen women” - there are so many things women need help with, more than the wig issue. So many women who are about to give up on Yiddishkeit, on life. So many women who feel so alone and forgotten. There’s a lot more you can do in this area.

If you specifically want to buy off wigs of women who already have an internal struggle with this: I think that’s beautiful and you can create an OP and initiative specifically for this.

amother

Violet

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:11 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

You're trying to spin her statement into something she didn't say. She just stated that all the Kol Koreis are always aimed at women. Due to overuse, and the fact that they're always aimed at one portion of the population, people don't take them to heart anymore. It has nothing to do with criticizing any group or any particulars.

amother

Violet

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:18 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

You actually made your agenda quite clear in your OP. So yes all it took was two seconds because it room two seconds to read.

“ I was hoping to be able to do something to strengthen women” - there are so many things women need help with, more than the wig issue. So many women who are about to give up on Yiddishkeit, on life. So many women who feel so alone and forgotten. There’s a lot more you can do in this area.

If you specifically want to buy off wigs of women who already have an internal struggle with this: I think that’s beautiful and you can create an OP and initiative specifically for this.

This - I think women would react to such bans with much more understanding, if the Rebbes and Ravs would expend equal energy to the difficulties women already face, instead of adding to them. Women are under huge burdens in our society, both physically and financially - and there are many concerns affecting their children. If the leaders would tackle these issues, instead of sidestepping them, perhaps we would all be much more receptive when such concerns are relayed to us.

Think about it, if a leader only shows up to say - don't do this, don't do that, again and again and again, and doesn't lend his face to any daily struggles, people eventually turn a deaf ear to his words. It's not because people don't want to be good, or don't want to do right - they end up very confused and disillusioned by such behaviors. We are not angels, we are human beings.

amother

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:19 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

100% agree, there are so many things women need help with. I'm going to think about this.
Thanks!

amother

Violet

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:21 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

100% agree, there are so many things women need help with. I'm going to think about this.
Thanks!

Yes, there are so many gashmiyus issues that women are struggling with - children, financials, marriage related issues, etc. Think about how you can help them in those areas!

Worry about others' gashmiyus and your own ruchniyos!

amother

Sapphire

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:25 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

But she has been very clear that she is not in this community, so she's getting a skewed picture. As are many here.

The Rabbanim are very definitely speaking to the men about many things, and they have shmuzen all the time, rules, etc. My son is in BMG and he has to sign that he doesn't have a phone with text. Another son is in Israel and he had to sign that he will never get a smartphone. They are targeting the men just as much, if not more than, the women, in my yeshivish community.

I would imagine the disparity you're seeing is that the men are still in yeshiva and go to shul Shabbos so they get speeches there, while the only way to reach women (once they're out of school) is through these kol koreihs.

Believe me, the men get plenty of speeches whether they are learning in BMG or from their shul Rabbanim.

amother

Bisque

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:28 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

And the BMG guys listen about as well as the ladies do regarding wigs. The difference is that they don't get shamed for ignoring the rule. Women shame each other when it comes to wigs.

smss

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:29 am

OP why?? Why do you care??

I've never worn a lace wig and probably never will, because they're more expensive and it's just not important enough to me.

What IS important to me is not confusing sensitivity with halacha. This is important for you yourself, because there's a hierarchy and sensitivities do NOT carry the same weight as halacha. And it's important for you in relation to other people, so that you don't judge them for "doing an aveirah" when actually they are just not sharing your sensitivity.

Halacha is to cover your hair. With whatever! A lace front wig or a paper bag. Your choice! Al pi halacha there's no difference between a lace front wig and any human hair wig. Did you know rabbanim decried the human hair wigs when they came out?

If you don't want to wear one, don't wear one, but there is no reason to evangelize here.

amother

Sapphire

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:30 am

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

And the BMG guys listen about as well as the ladies do regarding wigs. The difference is that they don't get shamed for ignoring the rule. Women shame each other when it comes to wigs.

Um... on which planet? Not in my world.

amother

Ecru

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:30 am

We need moshiach badly. That’s what my Rav responded when I discussed it with him. He holds there is no difference between lace and regular human hair wig and that the same thing happened when human hair wigs came out. Everyone stop judging others. Ask your own shaila. If your own Rav is confused about what he thinks and even was stupid enough to have his name signed without clear feelings about it, time to find a new rav