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Forum
-> Fashion and Beauty
-> Sheitels & Tichels
If you wear a lace top wigs, what is your rational?
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| My rav says its ok |
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35% |
[ 28 ] |
| I never asked a rav, I do what I want |
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26% |
[ 21 ] |
| Everyone around me wears one (including my teachers and rebetzin) so I'm assuming it's fine |
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8% |
[ 7 ] |
| I already have one and it would be a waste of $ to get rid of it |
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7% |
[ 6 ] |
| Be happy my hair is even covered |
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22% |
[ 18 ] |
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| Total Votes : 80 |
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amother
OP
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 Sun, May 30 2021, 11:33 am
"hanistaros lhashem elokeinu v'haniglos lanu ulivaneinu ad olam"
Yes, there is a concept in the Torah about us being responsible for each other's ruchnius. Just saying!
If you would value the importance of ruchnius and olam haba, you would care for someones ruchnius just as much as their gashmius.
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Zehava
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Sun, May 30 2021, 11:34 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | "hanistaros lhashem elokeinu v'haniglos lanu ulivaneinu ad olam"
Yes, there is a concept in the Torah about us being responsible for each other's ruchnius. Just saying!
If you would value the importance of ruchnius and olam haba, you would care for someones ruchnius just as much as their gashmius. |
So I guess the rebbe who said to worry about your own ruchnius and the others gashmius just didn’t see the importance?
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amother
Green
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Sun, May 30 2021, 11:46 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | Oh the joys of being the op. Everyone sums you and your agenda up in two seconds...
I think you'd be surprised to meet me - I'm not your picture of the frummie who's trying to ban wigs. Believe me when I say I am not here to judge. It's a huge challenge for me as well.
I was thinking about all the advertisements from the rabannim and how nobody seems to be caring about them, so it seems its a bit useless. I was hoping to be able to do something to strengthen women, but I first wanted to understand more.
If everyone's rav says it's ok, then there is no need to assur them. If it's a money thing, perhaps I could offer to buy people a new wig in exchange for the old one.... |
I'm lining up for this one...
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amother
Violet
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Sun, May 30 2021, 11:47 am
| amother [ Sapphire ] wrote: | But she has been very clear that she is not in this community, so she's getting a skewed picture. As are many here.
The Rabbanim are very definitely speaking to the men about many things, and they have shmuzen all the time, rules, etc. My son is in BMG and he has to sign that he doesn't have a phone with text. Another son is in Israel and he had to sign that he will never get a smartphone. They are targeting the men just as much, if not more than, the women, in my yeshivish community.
I would imagine the disparity you're seeing is that the men are still in yeshiva and go to shul Shabbos so they get speeches there, while the only way to reach women (once they're out of school) is through these kol koreihs.
Believe me, the men get plenty of speeches whether they are learning in BMG or from their shul Rabbanim. |
Well, I'm not from a different community and don't have a skewed picture. Look at the difference in your words when you describe the tactics aimed at men and women. Women get 'bans' and letting them know they're doing immoral behaviors, or that their actions were the cause of a particular crisis. Men get 'shmuzen'. Other than expecting the learning clientele not to have smartphones, there aren't any other direct demands on them.
Give women 'shmuzen' too, not outright bans. Let us have a choice in choosing our paths with our own Ravs. This matters greatly, because when things are banned they become measures of our frumkeit, and then it becomes tools that our community uses to force us to follow. If the lace wigs ban goes in similar direction as the other bans, our schools and yeshivas will soon use it to determine if you are worthy enough of gaining entry in their system. It will soon be another thing that will be blamed for another tragedy.
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amother
Lemon
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Sun, May 30 2021, 11:48 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | "hanistaros lhashem elokeinu v'haniglos lanu ulivaneinu ad olam"
Yes, there is a concept in the Torah about us being responsible for each other's ruchnius. Just saying!
If you would value the importance of ruchnius and olam haba, you would care for someones ruchnius just as much as their gashmius. |
When people will listen
I was taught that if you think they won’t you shouldn’t
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amother
Sapphire
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Sun, May 30 2021, 11:52 am
| amother [ Violet ] wrote: | Well, I'm not from a different community and don't have a skewed picture. Look at the difference in your words when you describe the tactics aimed at men and women. Women get 'bans' and letting them know they're doing immoral behaviors, or that their actions were the cause of a particular crisis. Men get 'shmuzen'. Other than expecting the learning clientele not to have smartphones, there aren't any other direct demands on them.
Give women 'shmuzen' too, not outright bans. Let us have a choice in choosing our paths with our own Ravs. This matters greatly, because when things are banned they become measures of our frumkeit, and then it becomes tools that our community uses to force us to follow. If the lace wigs ban goes in similar direction as the other bans, our schools and yeshivas will soon use it to determine if you are worthy enough of gaining entry in their system. It will soon be another thing that will be blamed for another tragedy. |
I never used the word "ban", that was a different poster. I used the word "psak" which I understand this is. For the thousands of people who do NOT follow the psak of these particular Rabbanim, not sure why you feel it's important to state that over and over again. No, you don't follow their psak, so this thread is not relevant to you. I'm sure you can start another thread that is more interesting, why do you keep coming on these threads and posting?
I'm going to disagree with you, I think men get plenty of flack for what they're doing wrong, and guess what? They care just as much as the women do - which is zero.
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amother
Violet
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Sun, May 30 2021, 11:53 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | "hanistaros lhashem elokeinu v'haniglos lanu ulivaneinu ad olam"
Yes, there is a concept in the Torah about us being responsible for each other's ruchnius. Just saying!
If you would value the importance of ruchnius and olam haba, you would care for someones ruchnius just as much as their gashmius. |
I can value their ruchniyos so much so that I'd first take care of their gashmiyus concerns, so that they have the headspace to focus on ruchniyos. The Torah itself suggests that we always first approach the gashmiyus angle when we attempt to help each other out. Because when the gashmiyus is of concern, one has difficulty focusing on the ruchniyos.
So I think the Torah and Rabbonim have had the right idea by suggesting that we focus on others' gashmiyos and our own ruchniyos - unless you believe that you know better?
Besides, there is also the fact that you can only help those who are ready to be helped. By forcing ruchniyos upon other, it either backfires or creates resentment. So instead of trying to push your way onto others, create a place where people can come for inspiration when they're ready.
To summarize - help people directly with their gashmiyus issues, to the extent they can come searching for spiritual inspiration.
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amother
Sapphire
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Sun, May 30 2021, 11:54 am
| amother [ Violet ] wrote: | I can value their ruchniyos so much so that I'd first take care of their gashmiyus concerns, so that they have the headspace to focus on ruchniyos. The Torah itself suggests that we always first approach the gashmiyus angle when we attempt to help each other out. Because when the gashmiyus is of concern, one has difficulty focusing on the ruchniyos.
So I think the Torah and Rabbonim have had the right idea by suggesting that we focus on others' gashmiyos and our own ruchniyos - unless you believe that you know better?
Besides, there is also the fact that you can only help those who are ready to be helped. By forcing ruchniyos upon other, it either backfires or creates resentment. So instead of trying to push your way onto others, create a place where people can come for inspiration when they're ready.
To summarize - help people directly with their gashmiyus issues, to the extent they can come searching for spiritual inspiration. |
Which Rabbanim? Oh, I don't hold by them.
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amother
Violet
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Sun, May 30 2021, 11:57 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | "hanistaros lhashem elokeinu v'haniglos lanu ulivaneinu ad olam"
Yes, there is a concept in the Torah about us being responsible for each other's ruchnius. Just saying!
If you would value the importance of ruchnius and olam haba, you would care for someones ruchnius just as much as their gashmius. |
And to add to my previous post - I think people who come from this direction are taking the easy, self-righteous route. Its much easier to tell people to do a spiritual act than to help them in the gashmiyos way. With the spiritual aspect, all you need to do is tell people off and make them feel guilty about something. It doesn't take much effort, and on the plus side, you get to feel so self-righteous about yourself. With helping someone in a gashmiyus sense, it requires actual physical work and/or financial costs. And there isn't the opportunity to publicly feel good about yourself either.
If you'd value the importance of ruchnius and olam haba, you'd take a step back and re-evaluate your true intentions.
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amother
Violet
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Sun, May 30 2021, 11:59 am
| amother [ Sapphire ] wrote: | | Which Rabbanim? Oh, I don't hold by them. |
Well, then - as you've told others - step aside then.
And my question clearly stated " The Torah and Rabbonim". - Why did you leave the Torah portion out of your question?
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amother
OP
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Sun, May 30 2021, 11:59 am
[quote="amother [ Lemon ]"]When people will listen
I was taught that if you think they won’t you shouldn’t[/q
So we come full circle. This is exactly my point. Ppl aren't listening to the rabbanim and kol kories. So I was trying to figure out if there is a better way or if there is no way.
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amother
Violet
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Sun, May 30 2021, 12:02 pm
[quote="amother [ OP ]"] | amother [ Lemon ] wrote: | When people will listen
I was taught that if you think they won’t you shouldn’t[/q
So we come full circle. This is exactly my point. Ppl aren't listening to the rabbanim and kol kories. So I was trying to figure out if there is a better way or if there is no way. |
There is - as I've mentioned earlier. Start from the gashmiyus angle - help us navigate the troubling education system, the financial crisis of our communities, and the shidduch difficulties facing so many.
When these things are tackled, you'll see a major improvement on how we absorb the spiritual angle as well.
You can't only show up to tack on more issues onto a growing pile of other issues.
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Ema of 5
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Sun, May 30 2021, 12:03 pm
| amother [ Sapphire ] wrote: | I don't understand this comment. If these are not your Rabbanim, why are you criticizing what they do? I'm not Satmar, is it OK if I come here and criticize the Satmar Rebbe for not allowing women to learn inside?
And it's not a BAN, it's a clarification of a psak. |
I guess you misunderstood.
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amother
Bisque
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Sun, May 30 2021, 12:12 pm
| amother [ Sapphire ] wrote: | | Um... on which planet? Not in my world. | Lakewood, NJ, USA, Planet Earth
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Ema of 5
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Sun, May 30 2021, 12:14 pm
| amother [ Sapphire ] wrote: | But she has been very clear that she is not in this community, so she's getting a skewed picture. As are many here.
The Rabbanim are very definitely speaking to the men about many things, and they have shmuzen all the time, rules, etc. My son is in BMG and he has to sign that he doesn't have a phone with text. Another son is in Israel and he had to sign that he will never get a smartphone. They are targeting the men just as much, if not more than, the women, in my yeshivish community.
I would imagine the disparity you're seeing is that the men are still in yeshiva and go to shul Shabbos so they get speeches there, while the only way to reach women (once they're out of school) is through these kol koreihs.
Believe me, the men get plenty of speeches whether they are learning in BMG or from their shul Rabbanim. |
Actually, going just from this thread, I didn’t say anything about what community I am part of. All I said was that there ARE rabbanim who say it’s perfectly fine. It’s called understanding and acknowledging that there is more than one legitimate, acceptable path, understanding that my way isn’t the only way. (Whatever my way may be)
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amother
Sapphire
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Sun, May 30 2021, 12:15 pm
| amother [ Bisque ] wrote: | | Lakewood, NJ, USA, Planet Earth |
I live in Lakewood, NJ, USA, Planet Earth, and all I see are long shaitels (not ok by Rabbi Forscheimer), natural looking shaitels (supposedly not ok) and plenty of lace tops/fronts. So the shaming that you speak of doesn't seem to be working too well (and I personally have never encountered it).
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amother
Bisque
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Sun, May 30 2021, 12:18 pm
| amother [ Sapphire ] wrote: | | I live in Lakewood, NJ, USA, Planet Earth, and all I see are long shaitels (not ok by Rabbi Forscheimer), natural looking shaitels (supposedly not ok) and plenty of lace tops/fronts. So the shaming that you speak of doesn't seem to be working too well (and I personally have never encountered it). | It’s in specific circles. And no it doesn’t work lol
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Ema of 5
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Sun, May 30 2021, 12:18 pm
| amother [ Bisque ] wrote: | | And the BMG guys listen about as well as the ladies do regarding wigs. The difference is that they don't get shamed for ignoring the rule. Women shame each other when it comes to wigs. |
Women shame each other when it comes to anything it’s terrible.
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Ema of 5
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Sun, May 30 2021, 12:21 pm
| amother [ Sapphire ] wrote: | But she has been very clear that she is not in this community, so she's getting a skewed picture. As are many here.
The Rabbanim are very definitely speaking to the men about many things, and they have shmuzen all the time, rules, etc. My son is in BMG and he has to sign that he doesn't have a phone with text. Another son is in Israel and he had to sign that he will never get a smartphone. They are targeting the men just as much, if not more than, the women, in my yeshivish community.
I would imagine the disparity you're seeing is that the men are still in yeshiva and go to shul Shabbos so they get speeches there, while the only way to reach women (once they're out of school) is through these kol koreihs.
Believe me, the men get plenty of speeches whether they are learning in BMG or from their shul Rabbanim. |
Also, one more thing. Speaking to men in yeshiva or at shul is NOT the same thing as putting out a kol korei.
Last edited by Ema of 5 on Sun, May 30 2021, 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ema of 5
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Sun, May 30 2021, 12:29 pm
| amother [ Sapphire ] wrote: | I never used the word "ban", that was a different poster. I used the word "psak" which I understand this is. For the thousands of people who do NOT follow the psak of these particular Rabbanim, not sure why you feel it's important to state that over and over again. No, you don't follow their psak, so this thread is not relevant to you. I'm sure you can start another thread that is more interesting, why do you keep coming on these threads and posting?
I'm going to disagree with you, I think men get plenty of flack for what they're doing wrong, and guess what? They care just as much as the women do - which is zero. |
Actually, this thread is SPECIFICALLY for those who don’t follow those rabbanim who have assured these wigs. If anyone shouldn’t be here (and I think everyone has a right to post everywhere, so don’t get started on that) it’s the people who DO follow those rabbanim. OP asked specifically about those who DO wear lace top/fronts.
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