Anti-vaxxers stop it. If you don’t want it don’t take it.

Kiwi13

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:39 pm

I'm anti the process surrounding THIS vaccine. As I've said before, I told my kids' pediatrician my fears about it and he said I'm irrationally endangering my kids (5, 3, and 3) by not wanting them vaccinated with this still-experimental vaccine the instant it's available to them. He told me I'm the same as the "MMR causes autism" crowd, which I found infuriating, invalidating, and hurtful - especially considering that I have a child with autism and NEVER ONCE even questioned whether it was vaccine-related.

The blind faith in a vaccine which has been shrouded in lies and secrecy and flip-flopping "facts" from the beginning is baffling to me. Nowhere else in medicine do you see such a thing.

Yet I keep my mouth shut because I know my views are not welcome, or even tolerable, to most. To the majority of the world, I'm the enemy just for questioning the status quo and crowd rush. I never push my ideas on anybody, and with this one, I've learned to nod along and keep silent. This is our world. I take it up with God in tefillah. That's the extent of Who listens to anybody these days.

Ema of 5

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:43 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

I’m sorry your pediatrician was so nasty to you.
I find it infuriating that so many people (on both sides) are so unwilling to even listen to the other side, and can’t even have a civil conversation about it.

Kiwi13

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 12:50 pm

amother [ Pear ] wrote:

They are typically anti-establishment, don’t trust science is being presented honestly and without an agenda.

So it covers a lot of these rules

(Not saying their wrong, just explaining. )

My two cents: Trusting "Science" went out the window when "Science" started proclaiming there's no significant difference between men and women. And when "Science" started threatening the end of the world in 12 years due to global warming. And all sorts of other NON-science "Science."

It's not the same people backing this stuff necessarily, but you can't blame the public for being confused as heck right now. We're surrounded by sheker. I myself admit I don't know what's true regarding this vaccine. I'm holding out for more information. I worry that the warning that people might need an annual booster of this thing might be connected to fears over ADE. Does anybody know for sure? No. And that's my concern. When doctors are threatened not to speak outside the party line, that's a red flag to me.

To be clear: Is the vaccine dangerous? I DON'T KNOW.
Am I getting it: NOT UNLESS FORCED (and I worry I eventually WILL be forced)
Do I tell others what to do: NO.

amother

Green

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 1:00 pm

cuffs wrote:

You clearly did not loose any family members from COVID.

I did, to neglect and unnecessary ventilators back in March. I also refused to leave the house or even open the windows for my poor little kids. I refused to visit my parents.
As soon as the blm parade happened I called scam on it all.

amother

NeonBlue

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 1:17 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

These conspiracy theories are nuts. My grandfather died from Covid at home a few days after he got it. No neglect or ventilators. Just a fever and coughing.

There are 2 kinds of people.
People who are more afraid of the vaccine than they are afraid of Covid, and people who are more afraid of Covid than the vaccine.

One had people die for certain, one is as most an unknown possibility.

You don't want to take it, don't. Just don't make up facts to prove your point.

(Even if it would be a fact that people died of neglect or ventilators, why is the solution not to vax? Wouldn't you want to prevent your family from ending up in these terribly unsafe hospitals?)

Last edited by amother on Mon, Dec 20 2021, 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

cornflower

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 1:18 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

Herd immunity can not be achieved through a vaccine that needs to be given every year, or more than once a year.

So how'd we eradicate polio, and how'd the US eliminate measles for so many years?

Herd immunity cannot be achieved if antibodies from the virus fade after a few months, or if antibodies from the virus only cover that strain, but every few months a new strain appears and those who had the previous strain are not immune to the new one.

It's pretty hard to achieve herd immunity for any coronavirus, which is why they didn't bother until it became absolutely necessary.

Meanwhile the vaccines seem to offer protection against more than one strain.

amother

cornflower

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 1:32 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

I have to admit that I don’t really watch or listen to the news, but the only place I have heard about herd immunity with regard to this vaccine is here. Outside of this forum, I hear about it being similar to the flu shot, which is given to minimize the effects of the virus if you get it, not to provide immunity or herd immunity. Outside of this forum, I have not heard that getting the vaccine will protect you from getting the virus. The chicken pox vaccine for example, prevents most people from getting chicken pox because it provides herd immunity and therefore there is not really a place for the disease. It is my understanding that if herd immunity is required (or reached) then the vaccine wouldn’t need to be given every year or every 6 months. Are there any other vaccines which provide immunity but also require a yearly booster? I’m not aware of one.

So in the little strip of land called Israel they got hit very very VERY hard by the British strain. The number of kids getting it was going up, the number of people hospitalized was going up, all the numbers were through the roof. It was looking BAD. Even the lockdown didn't help, because if previously each lawbreaker infected 2 people out of the 50 he partied with, this time each lawbreaker infected 30 of the 50 he partied with, and each of them infected another 25-30, and so on.

The numbers weren't dropping, deaths were rising, hospitalizations were rising, women were losing pregnancies (and sometimes their own lives), and it was starting to look like we wouldn't make it through this pandemic.

Then....a miracle. The Pfizer vaccine was approved, and arrived in Israel. We started vaccinating everyone elderly and everyone in the medical field, some teachers got vaccinated too. The number of people hospitalized over a certain age started to even out, then drop. Then, we vaccinated more people. The numbers had been rising throughout the lockdown, they were rising more slowly when we started opening up again, they were rising until about two or three weeks after we started vaccinating.

And then - they stabilized. We kept at about the same number of new infections every day. One day a bit more, one day a bit less, but about the same. And as we immunized more and more of the adult population, our numbers started to drop. And they have been dropping since.

We reopened businesses - no rise. We reopened schools partway - no rise. All the way - no rise. We reopened restaurants - no increase in infections. Pesach as usual - no rise in infections. Yom Ha'atzmaut as usual - no rise in infections. WE HAD TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN MERON, PACKED LIKE SARDINES....annnnnd.....NO RISE IN INFECTIONS. And so many of those were kids. But still - no rise in infections.

Last time we reopened we started seeing the numbers spike, almost right away. The only time the numbers were this low, pre-vaccine, was at the very very end of the first tight lockdown, before we reopend anything. Those low numbers remained low for no more than a few weeks. Now, they have remained low for over a month.

No one here lives corona anymore. Life is as usual. No masks in the open air. And now - as of June 15, if all continues to go well - there will be no more masks required in enclosed spaces, either. They may keep the requirement in schools, where the majority are not immune to coronavirus - we're not sure yet.

The only reminders of corona are at our borders. Quarantine when you enter the country. Jumping through loops to bring in first-degree relatives. PCR and serology tests for travel. We dropped our Green Passport thing for within the country a couple weeks ago.

We're not living corona - because the vaccines have provided us with herd immunity.

You're still living corona - because without the vaccines, you're going to go around and around and around in circles, with breaks of a few months before the newer strain appears and causes another outbreak.

Science? Yes, it's based on science. But when you have an entire country so far ahead of the rest of the world, I think it's safe to say that herd immunity is possible, if enough people are vaccinated. How long will it last? We don't know yet. Hopefully long enough for the rest of you to beat it. But our government, our scientists are watching carefully. They are ready to give us boosters and we are ready to take them, because we have seen the miracle with our own eyes, and we don't want to go through more of what we went through during the pandemic. We don't want to live the life you are all living.

And there are no vaccine ads to convince us to take a vaccine, or which vaccine to take. Anyone who wants it - can come get it. Anyone who doesn't - doesn't. It is free. There are no ads. You pay no money.

And thank G-d for the miracles.

amother

cornflower

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 1:39 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Proud anti covid vax here. You say you did "research", does that included stats of efficacy of ivermectin and Hcq or are those conspiracy theories bc the media banned them.
Ofc I don't wear a mask either.
Ofc I won't believe bought for and paid for science.
And yes I think that blindly following fauci and CDC means you're a sheep.

These kinds of posts are exactly what OP was complaining about. Instead of respecting her complaint and actually hearing it, you are out to convince her again. Quit it.

amother

Poinsettia

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 1:44 pm

Disclaimer I didn't read the whole thread just the title

I'm as pro vax as they come but I don't believe anyone should be silenced. If you want the anti vaxxers to be silent then the pro vaxxers have to be silent too. They have the right to say whatever they want and you have the right to ignore them

amother

Melon

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 1:56 pm

I didn't read the thread, just the op.
I will counter your question with:
Why do the vaccinated judge the non-vaccinated and feel the need to pressure them to get the vaccine?

Ema of 5

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 3:03 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

Did you ever hear of this little country in the Middle East called Israel?

So in that little strip of land they got hit very very VERY hard by the British strain. The number of kids getting it was going up, the number of people hospitalized was going up, all the numbers were through the roof. It was looking BAD. Even the lockdown didn't help, because if previously each lawbreaker infected 2 people out of the 50 he partied with, this time each lawbreaker infected 30 of the 50 he partied with, and each of them infected another 25-30, and so on.

The numbers weren't dropping, deaths were rising, hospitalizations were rising, women were losing pregnancies (and sometimes their own lives), and it was starting to look like we wouldn't make it through this pandemic.

Then....a miracle. The Pfizer vaccine was approved, and arrived in Israel. We started vaccinating everyone elderly and everyone in the medical field, some teachers got vaccinated too. The number of people hospitalized over a certain age started to even out, then drop. Then, we vaccinated more people. The numbers had been rising throughout the lockdown, they were rising more slowly when we started opening up again, they were rising until about two or three weeks after we started vaccinating.

And then - they stabilized. We kept at about the same number of new infections every day. One day a bit more, one day a bit less, but about the same. And as we immunized more and more of the adult population, our numbers started to drop. And they have been dropping since.

We reopened businesses - no rise. We reopened schools partway - no rise. All the way - no rise. We reopened restaurants - no increase in infections. Pesach as usual - no rise in infections. Yom Ha'atzmaut as usual - no rise in infections. WE HAD TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN MERON, PACKED LIKE SARDINES....annnnnd.....NO RISE IN INFECTIONS. And so many of those were kids. But still - no rise in infections.

Last time we reopened we started seeing the numbers spike, almost right away. The only time the numbers were this low, pre-vaccine, was at the very very end of the first tight lockdown, before we reopend anything. Those low numbers remained low for no more than a few weeks. Now, they have remained low for over a month.

No one here lives corona anymore. Life is as usual. No masks in the open air. And now - as of June 15, if all continues to go well - there will be no more masks required in enclosed spaces, either. They may keep the requirement in schools, where the majority are not immune to coronavirus - we're not sure yet.

The only reminders of corona are at our borders. Quarantine when you enter the country. Jumping through loops to bring in first-degree relatives. PCR and serology tests for travel. We dropped our Green Passport thing for within the country a couple weeks ago.

We're not living corona - because the vaccines have provided us with herd immunity.

You're still living corona - because without the vaccines, you're going to go around and around and around in circles, with breaks of a few months before the newer strain appears and causes another outbreak.

Science? Yes, it's based on science. But when you have an entire country so far ahead of the rest of the world, I think it's safe to say that herd immunity is possible, if enough people are vaccinated. How long will it last? We don't know yet. Hopefully long enough for the rest of you to beat it. But our government, our scientists are watching carefully. They are ready to give us boosters and we are ready to take them, because we have seen the miracle with our own eyes, and we don't want to go through more of what we went through during the pandemic. We don't want to live the life you are all living.

And there are no vaccine ads to convince us to take a vaccine, or which vaccine to take. Anyone who wants it - can come get it. Anyone who doesn't - doesn't. It is free. There are no ads. You pay no money.

And thank G-d for the miracles.

Sorry, but you lost my attention at your first line. I’m being very respectful here, so no need for you to be condescending.

Ema of 5

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 3:05 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

The vaccines for the diseases you mentioned are not yearly vaccines. Are there any vaccines which produce herd immunity (meaning those diseases are mostly if not completely eradicated) which require a yearly or more frequent dose?

Ema of 5

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 3:07 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

The vaccine doesn’t provide immunity. It allows those who DO get the virus to suffer less harsh effects. The same way as the flu shot doesn’t provide immunity to the flu, it just reduces the effects.

amother

Orange

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 3:14 pm

SafeAtLast wrote:

That is not a conspiracy theory. There were nurses who came out and risked their jobs to expose the terrible conditions in the hospitals. People who survived reported that they were left starving and not given enough food and drink. There are enough reports to know the conditions in the hospital were horrible and people who could have been helped were left to die. Hatzoloh did all they could to avoid bringing people to hospitals for a reason.

That has no connection with taking the covid vaccine. Some people want to take it, and some don't believe it's the right solution to covid. Taking the vaccine has nothing to do with the conditions of hospitals during covid.

amother

Holly

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 3:21 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

That isn't true. If you've had the vaccine, you're unlikely to catch Covid at all.

amother

NeonBlue

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 3:25 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

So your solution would be no vaccing and overcrowding the hospital system?

What actually has been proven is that the earlier you go to the hospital, the more chances you have to recover.
People were dying because they were afraid to go to the hospital.

Last edited by amother on Mon, Dec 20 2021, 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

small bean

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 3:28 pm

So news today and were supposed to just follow what were being told.

New study finds that the use of weight-adjusted hydroxychloroquine & azithromycin improved survival of ventilated COVID-19 patients by nearly 200% - medRxiv

So states that banned this and now tell you to vax. We should trust them?

amother

cornflower

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 3:30 pm

small bean wrote:

That's not the point. The point is that she's sick of the anti-vax propaganda. They're not going to convince her and at this point it's on the level of harassment.

small bean

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 3:40 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

That's not the point. The point is that she's sick of the anti-vax propaganda. They're not going to convince her and at this point it's on the level of harassment.

It's not harassment. She can ignore it.

amother

cornflower

Wed, Jun 09 2021, 3:57 pm

small bean wrote:

It's not harassment. She can ignore it.

Anyone being harassed can ignore it, unless it gets physical. So?