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Forum
-> Children's Health
-> Vaccinations
dancingqueen
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 Fri, Jun 11 2021, 3:57 pm
| flowerpower wrote: | | Why does there need to be a divide? Why can’t they write that “expectedly there are skeptics across the country and we hope they’ll become sheeple and just take the **** vaccine blindly”? Why write about each race and religion separately? Are they trying to infuse something here? |
Respectfully, are you familiar with newspapers in general?
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amother
Milk
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 3:58 pm
| #BestBubby wrote: | Because the article FALSELY dismisses these concerns as "unsubstantiated rumors"
and "misinformation".
Since it was never studied if this (or other) vaccines effect fertility, these concerns should not
be denigrated. It is a LIE to say it is "misinformation". |
Because they ARE unsubstantiated rumors and misinformation. Just because the long term effects aren't yet known, doesn't give one license to start assuming possible effects on their own. Coming up with a list of possibilities without any evidence to it, and using that as propaganda to scare everyone else away, is just that - unsubstantiated rumors and misinformation.
If the hesitant ones would rather say, we have concerns about the unknown and that possible long term effects may show up in the future, it wouldn't be considered unsubstantiated rumors and misinformation. It would relate to your personal concern and discomfort about the current situation. Doesnt that sound so much better than assuming possible situations without any evidence at all?
And I also think, it wouldn't be mortifying to read such explanations in print. Citing your discomfort about the unknown long term effects sound so much better than 'the vaccine can cause infertility', or "the vaccine will cause us to drop dead in x # of years', or "the medical systems is just looking to make money on us".
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amother
Poppy
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 4:27 pm
| amother [ Milk ] wrote: | No one seems to want to respond to this on this thread, so I'll try it again.
Why do anti-vaxxers feel so mortified with their opinions being publicized? This article includes statements made frequently on this board, so there should be a good many amothers here with these opinions. If you feel comfortable and stand by your opinions, you should feel no shame with them being discussed elsewhere. |
Let's summarize the article.
" A group of misinformed, uneducated, hyperbreeding religious women refuse to vaccinate. Even though we can quote several orthodox doctors who will agree with what we want this article to prove. These women are more willing to believe rumors and make decisions that affect our public health based on what their rabbis who also are superstitious, uneducated, and lacking in any conventional wisdom.
These women do not deserve any agency over their bodies or to believe anything other than the science that we claim is undisputable and 💯 proven to be true without a shadow of any doubt"
You are feeding all of us to the lions by asking us such a question without thinking critically about how this article is written to prove a point and rather than to understand a situation.
Also not taking a vaccine that is new, not fully approved, and everything else you've heard ad nauseam on this site is not REALLY a problem!!!!!
It's not even worthy of criticism!
I don't care if you're a Republican, Texan, Hispanic, orthodox jew, barely have your GED ... You have a right to say no to This brand new vaccine. Taking this vaccine doesn't mean you are smarter, more sophisticated, more educated, wealthier, worldly or whatever else these diabolical thought police would have you believe. It just means you have more faith in this scientific experiment than others do and not even because you think you understand it better. Remember there are plenty of silenced medical professionals and scientists who don't and won't take this vaccine. And that's ok.
The media will never say "we don't know $#!+."
They'd rather be the fact checkers. The thought leaders. The social justice warriors.
Have you ever been interviewed by a NYT reporter? I have. She was drooling to get something out of me that would just paint the community I am a member of in the way that she wanted her article to go. She didn't want to profile a community, she wanted to paint the profile of a community. This was 20 yrs ago. I can only imagine how much better things are now.
Keep asking your question over and over to try to prove your point that we are embarrassed because we know we are fools. What this vaccine is about I don't know and don't pretend to know. I'll take it when I feel well and comfortable to. And if I look like superstitious, uneducated, hyperbreedimg Orthodox Jew to the rest of the woke world that's fine. I'll breed and hopefully their kind will fizzle out. ( Hopefully not because of the vaccine, but because they would rather dtd with a robot)
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#BestBubby
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 4:42 pm
| amother [ Milk ] wrote: | Because they ARE unsubstantiated rumors and misinformation. Just because the long term effects aren't yet known, doesn't give one license to start assuming possible effects on their own. Coming up with a list of possibilities without any evidence to it, and using that as propaganda to scare everyone else away, is just that - unsubstantiated rumors and misinformation.
If the hesitant ones would rather say, we have concerns about the unknown and that possible long term effects may show up in the future, it wouldn't be considered unsubstantiated rumors and misinformation. It would relate to your personal concern and discomfort about the current situation. Doesnt that sound so much better than assuming possible situations without any evidence at all?
And I also think, it wouldn't be mortifying to read such explanations in print. Citing your discomfort about the unknown long term effects sound so much better than 'the vaccine can cause infertility', or "the vaccine will cause us to drop dead in x # of years', or "the medical systems is just looking to make money on us". |
There are MD Medical Doctors and PhD Scientists who say the Covid vaccine can have dangerous
effects on heart, blood clots - and fertility.
One doctor is an immunologist Dr. Bryam Bridle: “We made a big mistake. We didn’t realize it until now,” said Byram Bridle, a viral immunologist and associate professor at University of Guelph, Ontario. “We thought the spike protein was a great target antigen, we never knew the spike protein itself was a toxin and was a pathogenic protein. So by vaccinating people we are inadvertently inoculating them with a toxin.”
"The infamous spike protein of the coronavirus gets into the blood where it circulates for several days post-vaccination and then accumulated in organs and tissues including the spleen, bone marrow, the liver, adrenal glands, and in quite high concentrations in the ovaries”; “a large number of studies has shown that the most severe effects of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, such as blood clotting and bleeding, are due to the effects of the spike protein of the virus itself.”
Dr. Bryam Bridle has never been an anti-vaxxer - and this is his opinion.
Bridle, who was awarded a $230,000 grant by the Canadian government last year for research on COVID vaccine development, said he and a group of international scientists filed a request for information from the Japanese regulatory agency to get access to Pfizer’s “biodistribution study.”
https://www.lewrockwell.com/20.....mage/
Of course, there are other doctors who will disagree. But to say that these "rumors" have
no basis is FALSE.
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#BestBubby
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 4:47 pm
Here Dr. Bridle himself (8 minutes). Dr. Bridle claims to be Pro-Vax.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=xVFrEorkTxM&feature=emb_logo[/youtube]
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amother
Milk
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 4:53 pm
| amother [ Poppy ] wrote: | Let's summarize the article.
" A group of misinformed, uneducated, hyperbreeding religious women refuse to vaccinate. Even though we can quote several orthodox doctors who will agree with what we want this article to prove. These women are more willing to believe rumors and make decisions that affect our public health based on what their rabbis who also are superstitious, uneducated, and lacking in any conventional wisdom.
These women do not deserve any agency over their bodies or to believe anything other than the science that we claim is undisputable and 💯 proven to be true without a shadow of any doubt"
You are feeding all of us to the lions by asking us such a question without thinking critically about how this article is written to prove a point and rather than to understand a situation.
Also not taking a vaccine that is new, not fully approved, and everything else you've heard ad nauseam on this site is not REALLY a problem!!!!!
It's not even worthy of criticism!
I don't care if you're a Republican, Texan, Hispanic, orthodox jew, barely have your GED ... You have a right to say no to This brand new vaccine. Taking this vaccine doesn't mean you are smarter, more sophisticated, more educated, wealthier, worldly or whatever else these diabolical thought police would have you believe. It just means you have more faith in this scientific experiment than others do and not even because you think you understand it better. Remember there are plenty of silenced medical professionals and scientists who don't and won't take this vaccine. And that's ok.
The media will never say "we don't know $#!+."
They'd rather be the fact checkers. The thought leaders. The social justice warriors.
Have you ever been interviewed by a NYT reporter? I have. She was drooling to get something out of me that would just paint the community I am a member of in the way that she wanted her article to go. She didn't want to profile a community, she wanted to paint the profile of a community. This was 20 yrs ago. I can only imagine how much better things are now.
Keep asking your question over and over to try to prove your point that we are embarrassed because we know we are fools. What this vaccine is about I don't know and don't pretend to know. I'll take it when I feel well and comfortable to. And if I look like superstitious, uneducated, hyperbreedimg Orthodox Jew to the rest of the woke world that's fine. I'll breed and hopefully their kind will fizzle out. ( Hopefully not because of the vaccine, but because they would rather dtd with a robot) |
But the problem is that the way our community express their concerns is mortifying.! And that's what this article captured. The lack of scientific understand, the propaganda, misinformation, etc. is just pathetic. There is the a decent and sound way to profess our discomfort with the vaccines. Coming up with all kinds of possible assumed scenarios is not one of them. If we'd act in a grounded manner, this article couldn't have been written.
If the collective response would be that we are concerned about the long terms unknowns, it wouldn't sound like a bunch of hysterics, and hyperbole. But there are so many of us running around with claims that the vaccine will kill you, etc., it DOES look awful and screams of naivete and propaganda.
I'm not saying there aren't plenty of sound minds here that have valid concerns, and don't run around in hysterics. But those that do are so loud and forceful that they're drowning everyone else out. And that's what everyone else hears. The loud proclamations, the signs hanging around everywhere, the publications screaming the rumors is all over the place. We don't live in an island - and it gets into lots of outsiders hands too. You don't see this much of propaganda in other communities - even in the ones that vaccine hesitant.
This article is the reflection of how its being viewed outside of our community. Our lack of action to taper the hyperbole, (and in so many places we are encouraging this hyperbole), is hurting us. The takeaway of this article should be that we need to be cognizant of our behaviors. We can be wary of the vaccine in a proper, thought-out manner, without making us look like idiots, or of unintelligent mindset. We don't have to encourage or accept rumor or hyperbole. We should push for decent and intelligent discussion and act accordingly.
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#BestBubby
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 4:57 pm
| amother [ Milk ] wrote: | But the problem is that the way our community express their concerns is mortifying.! And that's what this article captured. The lack of scientific understand, the propaganda, misinformation, etc. is just pathetic. There is the a decent and sound way to profess our discomfort with the vaccines. Coming up with all kinds of possible assumed scenarios is not one of them. If we'd act in a grounded manner, this article couldn't have been written.
If the collective response would be that we are concerned about the long terms unknowns, it wouldn't sound like a bunch of hysterics, and hyperbole. But there are so many of us running around with claims that the vaccine will kill you, etc., it DOES look awful and screams of naivete and propaganda.
I'm not saying there aren't plenty of sound minds here that have valid concerns, and don't run around in hysterics. But those that do are so loud and forceful that they're drowning everyone else out. And that's what everyone else hears. The loud proclamations, the signs hanging around everywhere, the publications screaming the rumors is all over the place. We don't live in an island - and it gets into lots of outsiders hands too. You don't see this much of propaganda in other communities - even in the ones that vaccine hesitant.
This article is the reflection of how its being viewed outside of our community. Our lack of action to taper the hyperbole, (and in so many places we are encouraging this hyperbole), is hurting us. The takeaway of this article should be that we need to be cognizant of our behaviors. We can be wary of the vaccine in a proper, thought-out manner, without making us look like idiots, or of unintelligent mindset. We don't have to encourage or accept rumor or hyperbole. We should push for decent and intelligent discussion and act accordingly. |
NYT picks and chooses who they quote.
They deliberately quote people who come across as hysterical or uneducated and
deliberately leave out the people who sound educated and express reasonable concerns.
That's how propaganda works.
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amother
Milk
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 5:11 pm
| #BestBubby wrote: | NYT picks and chooses who they quote.
They deliberately quote people who come across as hysterical or uneducated and
deliberately leave out the people who sound educated and express reasonable concerns.
That's how propaganda works. |
But, to be honest, that's what I mostly hear in my neighborhood too. The only place I've come across some sound opinions on the vaccine hesitancy is here on this board. My neighborhood is bombarded with all these kinds of rumors and scare tactics. My mother took the shot recently and my aunt called to tell her that she is going to die soon. Another family member doesn't want to stand near her because she is afraid it will make her sick and die too. And that's the attitude prevalent here.
The NYT didn't really need to search for any people to quote. They pushed themselves right to the forefront and first in line for exposure.
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#BestBubby
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 5:12 pm
Saw this online:
Patient : "does this vaccine provide immunity?"
Doctor: "yes, to the manufacturer."
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#BestBubby
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 5:18 pm
| amother [ Milk ] wrote: | But, to be honest, that's what I mostly hear in my neighborhood too. The only place I've come across some sound opinions on the vaccine hesitancy is here on this board. My neighborhood is bombarded with all these kinds of rumors and scare tactics. My mother took the shot recently and my aunt called to tell her that she is going to die soon. Another family member doesn't want to stand near her because she is afraid it will make her sick and die too. And that's the attitude prevalent here.
The NYT didn't really need to search for any people to quote. They pushed themselves right to the forefront and first in line for exposure. |
A lot of people in Chassidish neighborhoods don't have high level of education.
And many won't use internet so they cannot quote the doctors and scientists who say
the vaccine is dangerous.
But I think it is intelligent that when one hears rumors that a vaccine is dangerous, may cause
infertility, to adopt a "wait and see" attitude and not rush to take part in an experiment.
Especially when the disease has a 99% survival rate, even more for younger population.
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amother
Poppy
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 5:21 pm
| amother [ Milk ] wrote: | But the problem is that the way our community express their concerns is mortifying.! And that's what this article captured. The lack of scientific understand, the propaganda, misinformation, etc. is just pathetic. There is the a decent and sound way to profess our discomfort with the vaccines. Coming up with all kinds of possible assumed scenarios is not one of them. If we'd act in a grounded manner, this article couldn't have been written.
If the collective response would be that we are concerned about the long terms unknowns, it wouldn't sound like a bunch of hysterics, and hyperbole. But there are so many of us running around with claims that the vaccine will kill you, etc., it DOES look awful and screams of naivete and propaganda.
I'm not saying there aren't plenty of sound minds here that have valid concerns, and don't run around in hysterics. But those that do are so loud and forceful that they're drowning everyone else out. And that's what everyone else hears. The loud proclamations, the signs hanging around everywhere, the publications screaming the rumors is all over the place. We don't live in an island - and it gets into lots of outsiders hands too. You don't see this much of propaganda in other communities - even in the ones that vaccine hesitant.
This article is the reflection of how its being viewed outside of our community. Our lack of action to taper the hyperbole, (and in so many places we are encouraging this hyperbole), is hurting us. The takeaway of this article should be that we need to be cognizant of our behaviors. We can be wary of the vaccine in a proper, thought-out manner, without making us look like idiots, or of unintelligent mindset. We don't have to encourage or accept rumor or hyperbole. We should push for decent and intelligent discussion and act accordingly. |
I think you're boxing everyone together the same way this article does. You look at the threads here and you see everyone expresses their fears or concerns or confusion or whatever differently. Yes the hyperbolic ones stand out but they're not even the overwhelming majority of the vaccine sceptics as whole in our community or in any community in the world. Pointing out the more suspicious and hysterical theories sells. Haven't they taken advantage of us all enough?
Just this week there was a NYT reporter who was appalled by something she saw that was political. It wasn't even hateful rhetoric just a political opinion. Her response wasn't everyone in this country is entitled to their opinions her response verbatim about this group of people was "You can marginalize them, long-term. But if we don’t take the threat seriously, then I think we’re all in really bad shape,”
Can you imagine???? A NYT JOURNALIST discussing how to marginalize a population of people? Because of their political beliefs? I don't even ascribe to the beliefs of that group. But for a member of MSM to openly admit to using a strategy of marginalization to silence a group of people????
And you're telling me it's our own fault for having some community members that are human and attracted to hyperbole? With that logic those girls that wear short skirts deserve to be raped. And that black boy wearing a hoody deserves to be shot.
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amother
Milk
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 5:22 pm
| #BestBubby wrote: | A lot of people in Chassidish neighborhoods don't have high level of education.
And many won't use internet so they cannot quote the doctors and scientists who say
the vaccine is dangerous.
But I think it is intelligent that when one hears rumors that a vaccine is dangerous, may cause
infertility, to adopt a "wait and see" attitude and not rush to take part in an experiment.
Especially when the disease has a 99% survival rate, even more for younger population. |
I wasn't discussing if the wait and see is a valid approach, I was discussing the approach how one goes about it.
And this current post is a great example - reread this post, and reread your other posts where you 'scream' in all caps that the vaccine will do XYZ. Which posts sounds more intelligent and thought-out? That's the same approach we need to take publicly. No hysteria, no propaganda, no scare tactics. Just take a ground approach, and say we are taking a wait and see attitude so we can analyze the long term results.
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amother
Milk
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 5:34 pm
| amother [ Poppy ] wrote: | I think you're boxing everyone together the same way this article does. You look at the threads here and you see everyone expresses their fears or concerns or confusion or whatever differently. Yes the hyperbolic ones stand out but they're not even the overwhelming majority of the vaccine sceptics as whole in our community or in any community in the world. Pointing out the more suspicious and hysterical theories sells. Haven't they taken advantage of us all enough?
Just this week there was a NYT reporter who was appalled by something she saw that was political. It wasn't even hateful rhetoric just a political opinion. Her response wasn't everyone in this country is entitled to their opinions her response verbatim about this group of people was "You can marginalize them, long-term. But if we don’t take the threat seriously, then I think we’re all in really bad shape,”
Can you imagine???? A NYT JOURNALIST discussing how to marginalize a population of people? Because of their political beliefs? I don't even ascribe to the beliefs of that group. But for a member of MSM to openly admit to using a strategy of marginalization to silence a group of people????
And you're telling me it's our own fault for having some community members that are human and attracted to hyperbole? With that logic those girls that wear short skirts deserve to be raped. And that black boy wearing a hoody deserves to be shot. |
I'm not boxing anyone in. I'm saying that this behavior is the loudest and most forceful, so it is drowning everyone else out. To the outsiders looking in, they obviously will see what is being pushed publicly. The hotheads are pushing their agenda with so much exposure, that it gives the impression that we are just a bunch of naive people running off with rumors. It doesn't matter that they're not the majority - it is becoming the face of our community because of their constant exposure and public actions.
Journalism always choose sensationalism to promote their papers. That's how they gain readers and make money.
I'm not telling you its our fault that the NYT got a hold of this and ran with it. I'm just explaining why inactions, and accepting (or excusing) some behaviors in our community, end up reflecting badly on us. This happens all the time in every community, secular, religious, amish, etc. It's the noisemaker that garner attention and its assumed they're representatives of their communities.
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amother
Poppy
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 5:39 pm
| amother [ Milk ] wrote: | I'm not boxing anyone in. I'm saying that this behavior is the loudest and most forceful, so it is drowning everyone else out. To the outsiders looking in, they obviously will see what is being pushed publicly. The hotheads are pushing their agenda with so much exposure, that it gives the impression that we are just a bunch of naive people running off with rumors. It doesn't matter that they're not the majority - it is becoming the face of our community because of their constant exposure and public actions.
Journalism always choose sensationalism to promote their papers. That's how they gain readers and make money.
I'm not telling you its our fault that the NYT got a hold of this and ran with it. I'm just explaining why inactions, and accepting (or excusing) some behaviors in our community, end up reflecting badly on us. This happens all the time in every community, secular, religious, amish, etc. It's the noisemaker that garner attention and its assumed they're representatives of their communities. |
I'm gonna quote Julia Sugarbaker on this one.
Julia: "I'm saying this is the South, and we're proud of our crazy people. We don't hide them up in the attic. We bring 'em right down to the living room and show 'em off. See, Phyllis, no one in the South ever asks if you have crazy people in your family. They just ask what side they're on."
Phyllis: Oh? And which side are yours on Mrs. Sugarbaker?
Julia: Both.
In other words. It is not my responsibility to shut up or silence or redirect anyone. It is the responsibility of a true journalist to find and search and investigate in order to get a fair and realistic picture of this issue.
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amother
Poppy
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 5:43 pm
NYT can suck a lemon. They have an agenda. I'm not embarrassed of the women in this article I am infuriated that this is considered journalism. And that some of us would rather say "we don't blame them" instead "they didn't do their actual job"
May they all lech l'azazel.
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flowerpower
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 5:49 pm
| dancingqueen wrote: | | Respectfully, are you familiar with newspapers in general? |
Do explain!
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amother
Milk
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 5:54 pm
| amother [ Poppy ] wrote: | I'm gonna quote Julia Sugarbaker on this one.
Julia: "I'm saying this is the South, and we're proud of our crazy people. We don't hide them up in the attic. We bring 'em right down to the living room and show 'em off. See, Phyllis, no one in the South ever asks if you have crazy people in your family. They just ask what side they're on."
Phyllis: Oh? And which side are yours on Mrs. Sugarbaker?
Julia: Both.
In other words. It is not my responsibility to shut up or silence or redirect anyone. It is the responsibility of a true journalist to find and search and investigate in order to get a fair and realistic picture of this issue. |
Well, ethical and honest journalism has long gone out the window. That's not news, and we are all aware of it. True journalism no longer exists and it hasn't for some time now.
So it's all the more reason to check our actions, precisely because of it. We know that sensationalism and agendas are now what controls journalism, so there's no reason to constantly feed the bear. Especially as Jews. We don't need to add fuel to the flames. This attitude could have been handled in a decent manner, without drawing more critical eyes upon us.
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Ema of 5
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 6:05 pm
| fleetwood wrote: | | Btw,by truth,I meant..that a large number of Orthodox women are not getting the vaccine. This is absolutely true..just read imamother! |
The membership here is hardly a good sampling
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fleetwood
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 6:16 pm
| Ema of 4 wrote: | | The membership here is hardly a good sampling |
True..but it is indicative of a lot of women in our community...
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Ema of 5
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Fri, Jun 11 2021, 6:26 pm
| amother [ Milk ] wrote: | Because they ARE unsubstantiated rumors and misinformation. Just because the long term effects aren't yet known, doesn't give one license to start assuming possible effects on their own. Coming up with a list of possibilities without any evidence to it, and using that as propaganda to scare everyone else away, is just that - unsubstantiated rumors and misinformation.
If the hesitant ones would rather say, we have concerns about the unknown and that possible long term effects may show up in the future, it wouldn't be considered unsubstantiated rumors and misinformation. It would relate to your personal concern and discomfort about the current situation. Doesnt that sound so much better than assuming possible situations without any evidence at all?
And I also think, it wouldn't be mortifying to read such explanations in print. Citing your discomfort about the unknown long term effects sound so much better than 'the vaccine can cause infertility', or "the vaccine will cause us to drop dead in x # of years', or "the medical systems is just looking to make money on us". |
No one is assuming anything, they are just saying they want answers. This is a new type of vaccine, so it can’t be compared to the others.
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