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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Dd talks with chutzpah. Advice?
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 4:16 pm
Dd 6 lots of times will talk to me with chutzpah or in a condescending tone etc. I really don’t think she’s learning it from me. I don’t talk to dh or my friends that way...
Like today she asked me to sit in her room at bedtime. Then also asked to bring a toy into bed. I said no to the toy but I came to sit on the other bed in the room while I nursed baby. She chants “wow you sitting on the bed in my room” in a really not nice way. Many of these types of examples.she tells me all the time that I’m a weirdo and can say “no” straight to my face when I ask her something etc...
What can I do about this?
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Learning




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 5:15 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Dd 6 lots of times will talk to me with chutzpah or in a condescending tone etc. I really don’t think she’s learning it from me. I don’t talk to dh or my friends that way...
Like today she asked me to sit in her room at bedtime. Then also asked to bring a toy into bed. I said no to the toy but I came to sit on the other bed in the room while I nursed baby. She chants “wow you sitting on the bed in my room” in a really not nice way. Many of these types of examples.she tells me all the time that I’m a weirdo and can say “no” straight to my face when I ask her something etc...
What can I do about this?

Is there anything going at home that prompt this behavior? It is very strange that she calls you a weirdo. I’m sure there is something that troubling her.
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 5:21 pm
6 is young. It's not chutzpah. Its something underlying. Try and talk to her about her friends, recess, the teachers, the bus monitor, the neighbor.

She is unsettled.
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banana split




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 5:59 pm
I agree with above. Maybe take her to a psychologist who does play therapy to figure out the source. Something bothering her
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 6:16 pm
No nothing at all going on at home bh. She does have a hard bus ride but her teachers both adore her and have only nice things to say and how popular she is and gets along well with everyone etc.
not taking her to a therapist. Really don’t think that’s necessary.
She’s not so easy to get her to shmooze about something bothering her But I really don’t think anything is bothering her. She’s a great kid otherwise. (Maybe I yell at her too much to stop being chutzpadik?)
She only calls me a weirdo when I don’t allow something that she wants
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 6:19 pm
Seems you may have a power struggle going on.
Maybe take a parenting course so you have better tools on hand to work with her.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 6:32 pm
"That's not how we talk to a mommy. Are you feeling (upset/mad/frustrated) that ____? It's okay to tell me how you feel. I know, I get upset/frustrated sometimes when people say no to me, too. But I can only listen to you and help you if you use kovodik words. So, let's try again. Say, "mommy, I really wish I could ___ and I'm upset you said no!"

Then, see if you can help her problem solve. Try to find a way to yes. Is it really so bad to take a toy to bed?
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 6:44 pm
imasinger wrote:
"That's not how we talk to a mommy. Are you feeling (upset/mad/frustrated) that ____? It's okay to tell me how you feel. I know, I get upset/frustrated sometimes when people say no to me, too. But I can only listen to you and help you if you use kovodik words. So, let's try again. Say, "mommy, I really wish I could ___ and I'm upset you said no!"

Then, see if you can help her problem solve. Try to find a way to yes. Is it really so bad to take a toy to bed?


Thanks! You always have insightful things to say. I try to talk that way to her and she just pouts.

About bringing the toy to bed-no it’s not really so bad but I’m supposed to let all these little things swing by then when do you actually say no to things? (I actually let her stay up late yest so she needed to get to sleep on time now and taking a toy to bed would mean playing with it ( even if I’d tell her she can’t)
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 6:45 pm
simba wrote:
Seems you may have a power struggle going on.
Maybe take a parenting course so you have better tools on hand to work with her.


Possibly! She is my eldest and I love her to pieces but I end up yelling at her for things like this then I feel so bad. What parenting course would you suggest?
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amother
DarkPurple


 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 7:07 pm
OP, I am in the same boat as you. My 5 and 7 year old speak to me that way. I think they have more difficult personalities because I have other children who are not that way at all. I just ignore it usually and figure they will outgrow it but maybe I’m just an ineffective parent. My mil certainly thinks so.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 7:14 pm
OP, I will give you old-fashioned advice and let the tomatoes fall where they may.

In the old days, children did not talk to their parents like that, because they would be punished.

Talk to you DD about the mitzvah of kibbud av v'eim, ona'as devorim (no name calling "weirdo").

Tell DD: You MUST listen when Mommy tells you to do something. You May NOT say "No."

You cannot call Mommy or anyone names, such as "weirdo".

If you break these rules you will be punished.

Decide on a punishment such as taking away her favorite toy for a few days,
or she doesn't get a yummy snack but plain pretzels for school, or sent to her room for time-out.

The behavior WILL get worse at first, as she will test you.

Expect this - and don't give up!

If you do this CONSISTENTLY, you should see an improvement in behavior.

Very important to stay very calm, don't show any anger or hurt.

Act like a cop giving a ticket.
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amother
Purple


 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 7:18 pm
imasinger wrote:
"That's not how we talk to a mommy.

This tends to either push their anger inside, and it will bubble over worse in some other place or other time. Or it triggers an escalation of power struggle. Either can happen.
How about reframing: " I get uncomfortable when I'm called a weirdo. Is there another way you can tell me what you think or feel, that would be easier for me to hear?"
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amother
RosePink


 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 7:58 pm
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
This tends to either push their anger inside, and it will bubble over worse in some other place or other time. Or it triggers an escalation of power struggle. Either can happen.
How about reframing: " I get uncomfortable when I'm called a weirdo. Is there another way you can tell me what you think or feel, that would be easier for me to hear?"


Really don't agree with this. It's not a 6 year old's job to be responsible for mommy's feelings of discomfort. That puts an unfair burden on the child.

Children crave structure. Setting and enforcing that structure should not be personal about mommy, it's for the child's benefit. That's why Imasinger's line is perfect, it's not personal, it's a statement of fact.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 9:09 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks! You always have insightful things to say. I try to talk that way to her and she just pouts.

About bringing the toy to bed-no it’s not really so bad but I’m supposed to let all these little things swing by then when do you actually say no to things? (I actually let her stay up late yest so she needed to get to sleep on time now and taking a toy to bed would mean playing with it ( even if I’d tell her she can’t)


This is a side point, but generally it's a good idea to say yes unless there's a compelling reason to say no. Kids have very little control over their own lives. That can be very frustrating and some kids need more autonomy.

If she's speaking sarcastically, I'd respond, "yes, I am sitting on your bed. Do you want me to leave?" Let her understand that her words have power.
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amother
NeonGreen


 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 9:21 pm
First of all, try saying yes to things that don’t really matter. Like if she wants to bring a toy to bed and it won’t make a huge difference you can try saying something like :
“you know what , Esti! I want to try something new today . I will let you bring a toy to bed for 5 minutes, and I’ll tell you when your time is up. Let’s see if you can put it away after 5 minutes and then I’ll know I can try this again tomorrow !”

“You’re a weirdo” might be her way of saying “I really love you and I wish you’d show me you love me by just saying yes to this .”
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tp3




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 9:32 pm
Diffuse with humor. It's so easy to get a six yr old to laugh. Silly rhymes, or illogical nonsense.
She's 6! Have fun with her. Sit on her bed and laugh together. Help her go to sleep with a smile on her face.
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amother
Phlox


 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 9:34 pm
I would get up and leave the room, on my way out I would say I was really hoping to sit in here with you but I can't stay if you are calling me names, or saying silly things. Sometimes I'll say do you want to try again, and give them a chance not to repeat the behavior. I also have a zero tolerance policy for name calling, kids should never call anyone anything let alone a parent.

About taking a toy to bed, you can say yes with boundaries. For example if you go into bed now instead of playing an extra few minutes down here then you can play in your bed. Or I will set a timer for x amount of time and when it beeps it's time to put the toy away.
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Learning




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 13 2021, 11:22 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
OP, I will give you old-fashioned advice and let the tomatoes fall where they may.

In the old days, children did not talk to their parents like that, because they would be punished.

Talk to you DD about the mitzvah of kibbud av v'eim, ona'as devorim (no name calling "weirdo").

Tell DD: You MUST listen when Mommy tells you to do something. You May NOT say "No."

You cannot call Mommy or anyone names, such as "weirdo".

If you break these rules you will be punished.

Decide on a punishment such as taking away her favorite toy for a few days,
or she doesn't get a yummy snack but plain pretzels for school, or sent to her room for time-out.

The behavior WILL get worse at first, as she will test you.

Expect this - and don't give up!

If you do this CONSISTENTLY, you should see an improvement in behavior.

Very important to stay very calm, don't show any anger or hurt.

Act like a cop giving a ticket.
I agree with bubby:). If nothing is going on at home she just needs boundaries. Children crave boundaries.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 2:25 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks! You always have insightful things to say. I try to talk that way to her and she just pouts.

About bringing the toy to bed-no it’s not really so bad but I’m supposed to let all these little things swing by then when do you actually say no to things? (I actually let her stay up late yest so she needed to get to sleep on time now and taking a toy to bed would mean playing with it ( even if I’d tell her she can’t)


Pouting is okay. It's way better than outright chutzpah. Let it go.

Whenever possible, as others here have said, it helps to avoid a power struggle. You can do this by offering two choices, both of which you can live with. "You want to take the toy to bed? Normally, that's not a good idea, but I understand it's very special to you right now. But since you were up late last night, you need sleep, too. You choose -- do you want it for 3 minutes, or 9 minutes? Ok, here, help me set my phone timer. Where should we put it when the timer beeps, on the dresser, or in the closet?"
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amother
Arcticblue


 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 5:08 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks! You always have insightful things to say. I try to talk that way to her and she just pouts.

About bringing the toy to bed-no it’s not really so bad but I’m supposed to let all these little things swing by then when do you actually say no to things? (I actually let her stay up late yest so she needed to get to sleep on time now and taking a toy to bed would mean playing with it ( even if I’d tell her she can’t)


Pick your battles for the important things like eating dinner and going to school.
I never say no just because I can.
Kids pick up on it.

About her calling you weirdo, I found kids that age who are the oldest mimick what kids says in school.
She may not know what weirdo means, or someone is saying it around her.
It doesn't sound like a word she would come up with at home.
Tell her that it is a not nice word, and we use our nice words. I'm sure you've spoken to her about nice language before.


Last edited by amother on Mon, Dec 20 2021, 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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