Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
S/o reacting to cancer deaths as we react to covid
1  2  3  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 2:51 pm
It's true that 600K Americans die of cancer every year and we don't, as a society try to reduce exposure to carcinogens. The major difference between dying of cancer and dying of Covid is that cancer usually takes longer to result in death.
Probably we need to get better at eliminating toxins if we really want to save lives. For example, I just read that pizza boxes and bags of frozen vegetables are coated with carcinogens and plastics and food sold at dollar stores have BPA and similar plastic carcinogens.
Back to top

chanatron1000




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 2:55 pm
Of course we as a society try to reduce exposure to carcinogens.
Back to top

honeymoon




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 2:57 pm
chanatron1000 wrote:
Of course we as a society try to reduce exposure to carcinogens.


But carcinogens are everywhere. Even in the most unsuspecting places.
Back to top

chanatron1000




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 2:57 pm
honeymoon wrote:
But carcinogens are everywhere. Even in the most unsuspecting places.

That's what makes it so difficult. That doesn't mean people aren't trying.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 3:33 pm
You could say the same thing about traffic deaths, deaths from alcohol-related causes, and deaths from other accidents. And I think you're wrong. We do, as a society, try to remove cancer risks. The average person just doesn't know about them because many of the efforts are at a governmental/university/research level, and because cancer is not one disease; it's a whole class of diseases.

But you're right that fundamentally, people tend to dismiss problems that they can remedy or at least minimize through their own behavior. They'd much rather blame the government, industry, Wall Street, the Medical Establishment and the ratcatcher because that leaves them off the hook. I "love" (not) people who blame their employer for exposing them to asbestos but still continue to smoke.

The real reason why people were up in arms about COVID is, aside from the staggering numbers of deaths in a short time, that it was something new. Seasonal flu kills between 12,000 to 60,000 people each year in the US alone--but because it's been around for millennia, your average Joe apparently doesn't much care. Similarly, Hepatitis B has been around since the Bronze Age at least, but nobody much cared about it and other old bloodborne diseases until AIDS burst on the scene. Then there was a whole hue and cry, even though hep B had been killing people since the time of the Pharaohs. AAMOF, I haven't heard anyone talk about AIDS in years, even though the disease still has no cure, and about 38,000 new people are diagnosed with HIV in the US each year.

New things always get top billing in people's minds and in the media.
Back to top

juggling




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 3:36 pm
And because covid is contagious?
Back to top

number




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 5:39 pm
The eu does a MUCH better job than the us. It seems to be a side effect of capitalism and our being the land of the free. Companies are free to include toxins in food and kitchen products and other things we interact with regularly. It’s upsetting.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 5:59 pm
number wrote:
The eu does a MUCH better job than the us. It seems to be a side effect of capitalism and our being the land of the free. Companies are free to include toxins in food and kitchen products and other things we interact with regularly. It’s upsetting.


Exactly but would you ever have imagined that carcinogens are found in medications, baby food, and sunscreen?
Back to top

jkl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 6:23 pm
juggling wrote:
And because covid is contagious?


This. You can't catch cancer (BH for that!!), nor are traffic accidents contagious either. We try to eliminate the source of diseases, and for Covid, it is people that are transmitting from one to the next. If it would be a species of rats or birds, we would have long culled the entire group. But since it's humans, the most we can do is to implement strategies to reduce transmission.
Back to top

monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 6:31 pm
jkl wrote:
This. You can't catch cancer(BH for that!!), nor are traffic accidents contagious either. We try to eliminate the source of diseases, and for Covid, it is people that are transmitting from one to the next. If it would be a species of rats or birds, we would have long culled the entire group. But since it's humans, the most we can do is to implement strategies to reduce transmission.

You can get cancer from secondhand smoking does that mean that we eliminate cigarettes altogether?

Do we get rid of alcohol and other drugs (some of which became legal now in several states) to prevent illness?

Do we get rid of sugar, white flour, etc to prevent illness?

Should all these be regulated by the govt or should people be able to decide how to live their lives and what they put in their bodies?
Back to top

chanatron1000




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 6:35 pm
I am 100% pro a full ban on smoking in public.
Back to top

jkl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 6:45 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
You can get cancer from secondhand smoking does that mean that we eliminate cigarettes altogether?

Do we get rid of alcohol and other drugs (some of which became legal now in several states) to prevent illness?

Do we get rid of sugar, white flour, etc to prevent illness?

Should all these be regulated by the govt or should people be able to decide how to live their lives and what they put in their bodies?


These example relate to personal choices. A person has a choice of imbibing alcohol and taking drugs (at least in the beginning). Eating sugar & white flour are also personal choices. You don't really have a choice with people in your surroundings outside of your own home.

Second hand smoke is the outlier, and it is indeed a hot button issue precisely for this reason. Can you endanger others by your actions?
Back to top

monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 6:54 pm
chanatron1000 wrote:
I am 100% pro a full ban on smoking in public.

Banning smoking in public wont stop putting people (and especially kids) in danger for secondhand smoking as people will just smoke in their houses and expose their families, including their kids, to the secondhand smoke defeating the purpose of the ban.
Back to top

monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 6:54 pm
jkl wrote:
These example relate to personal choices. A person has a choice of imbibing alcohol and taking drugs (at least in the beginning). Eating sugar & white flour are also personal choices. You don't really have a choice with people in your surroundings outside of your own home.

Second hand smoke is the outlier, and it is indeed a hot button issue precisely for this reason. Can you endanger others by your actions?

Yes, if you are pregnant you can put your baby at risk for neonatal abstinence syndrome if you take drugs or drink alcohol. So should drugs and alcohol be banned for everyone or at least for women?

And if you can make personal decisions of what you put in your body then why force people to take the covid vaccine that may or may not be good for them? Why cant they decide what to put in their body when it comes to this particular drug?
Back to top

chanatron1000




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 6:56 pm
Perhaps there should also be more measures to protect against child abuse.
Back to top

jkl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 6:59 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
Yes, if you are pregnant you can put your baby at risk for neonatal abstinence syndrome if you take drugs or drink alcohol. So should drugs and alcohol be banned for everyone or at least for women?

And if you can make personal decisions of what you put in your body then why force people to take the covid vaccine that may or may not be good for them? Why cant they decide what to put in their body when it comes to this particular drug?


If your baby is born with neonatal abstinence, you run the risk of losing custody. But it is a tricky situation because it is the body of the mother. It still is a personal choice, albeit affecting ONE other person, not every other person you may encounter day in and day out.

Vaccines are meant to protect the population. They're developed to protect all of us, and it's dependent on the idea of herd immunity. With giving the vaccine the focus is on all of society versus individuality. If society is looking to eradicate a disease, then it has to be group effort.


(Btw, They are giving you the choice, they're not forcing it upon you, but that's another discussion)
Back to top

monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 7:17 pm
jkl wrote:
If your baby is born with neonatal abstinence, you run the risk of losing custody. But it is a tricky situation because it is the body of the mother. It still is a personal choice, albeit affecting ONE other person, not every other person you may encounter day in and day out.

Vaccines are meant to protect the population. They're developed to protect all of us, and it's dependent on the idea of herd immunity. With giving the vaccine the focus is on all of society versus individuality. If society is looking to eradicate a disease, then it has to be group effort.


(Btw, They are giving you the choice, they're not forcing it upon you, but that's another discussion)

But your question was, can you endanger others by your actions. And the answer is yes even if its one or two or three kids (if there are twins, triplets, etc or multiple single kids). So should it be a personal choice or should we ban alcohol and drugs if it will endanger others?

And if you only want herd immunity then why not get it naturally by infecting everyone with covid and then giving them ivermectin or other life saving medications to ensure survival but also give natural immunity thereby creating herd immunity? Why only rely on a drug that is not well researched and is definitely causing harm to some people?

And yes, its forced if you have to take it for school or work or even to shop in stores even if you believe that people can avoid doing all that but they can get penalized for not sending their kids to school (and may not qualify for homeschooling bc lets face it not everyone can teach their kids) and still need to put food on their table and a roof over their heads. So why can people make personal decisions to smoke and drink and eat sugar but cant decide not to take the covid vaccine?

Imagine if the school says that you cant send your kids unless everyone in the family stops eating sugar and white flour and no more drinking alcohol either. That is what being forced looks like btw which is what is happening (or will happen in the future) with covid.
Back to top

dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 7:21 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
You can get cancer from secondhand smoking does that mean that we eliminate cigarettes altogether?

Do we get rid of alcohol and other drugs (some of which became legal now in several states) to prevent illness?

Do we get rid of sugar, white flour, etc to prevent illness?

Should all these be regulated by the govt or should people be able to decide how to live their lives and what they put in their bodies?


Almost everything you mention is regulated by the government already. Public health and safety is not a new industry.
Back to top

jkl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 7:24 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
But your question was, can you endanger others by your actions. And the answer is yes even if its one or two or three kids (if there are twins, triplets, etc or multiple single kids). So should it be a personal choice or should we ban alcohol and drugs if it will endanger others?

And if you only want herd immunity then why not get it naturally by infecting everyone with covid and then giving them ivermectin or other life saving medications to ensure survival but also give natural immunity thereby creating herd immunity? Why only rely on a drug that is not well researched and is definitely causing harm to some people?

And yes, its forced if you have to take it for school or work or even to shop in stores even if you believe that people can avoid doing all that but they can get penalized for not sending their kids to school (and may not qualify for homeschooling bc lets face it not everyone can teach their kids) and still need to put food on their table and a roof over their heads. So why can people make personal decisions to smoke and drink and eat sugar but cant decide not to take the covid vaccine?

Imagine if the school says that you cant send your kids unless everyone in the family stops eating sugar and white flour and no more drinking alcohol either. That is what being forced looks like btw which is what is happening (or will happen in the future) with covid.


Because there is a very clear distinction between endangering your own body and fetuses, versus endangering everyone else. Fetuses and the rest of the society don't run along the same lines. And besides there are plenty of laws in place to protect fetuses.

The natural way of immunity runs a much greater risk of more deaths and more long term injuries. There are issues with ivermectin and with other life saving treatments that pale in comparison with the issues with vaccines. The current risk rate of vaccines hasn't even come close to the clearly demonstrated risks with Covid.

I'm not going to go into a discussion about if requesting proof of vaccines for privileges or return to normalcy on this thread. There have been dozens of threads about that on this board, and I don't want to hijack another thread about it.

And again, eating white flour doesnt not affect those around you, nor does eating sugar. And if you drink alcohol while pregnant so much so that you endanger the fetus, there is a good chance that you can lose the custody of the child - precisely because you've demonstrated that you can't protect those around you.
Back to top

small bean




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 14 2021, 7:24 pm
There are no deaths that we react the same way as covid even flu or pneumonia because we understand were not in control of death. People die every day and that's the way it goes.

When it came to covid we were given a script to give a false sense of control. We were not able to control it with anything but it made us feel good and people dying effected us more because that feeling of control was getting lost.

I've been consistent this whole time. My opinions haven't changed from day 1. And I don't think the reason for death matters much. All reasons are sad and unfortunately death is inevitable.
Back to top
Page 1 of 3 1  2  3  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Should I tell my kids that my mother has cancer?
by amother
11 Fri, Mar 22 2024, 3:17 pm View last post
How would you react in this situation?
by amother
14 Sun, Mar 10 2024, 7:52 am View last post
What is Covid like now
by amother
10 Thu, Jan 11 2024, 4:48 pm View last post
How concerned do we need to be for covid part #2? 64 Sat, Dec 23 2023, 11:42 pm View last post
Doctor VIDEO - Covid vaccine 3+ boosters and cancer
by mirror
3 Mon, Oct 30 2023, 1:25 pm View last post