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Jews who are feeding prejudices about jews

 
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 7:24 am
I've had this topic in my head for a long time. It is something I'm bothered with, and I've heard from some people it bothers them from secular to orthodox.
And it is about: ''WE JEWS ARE THE BEST'' and then showing off with the noble prize winners, famous screen players, musicians, politicians, philanthropists and, actors.
I don't understand why frum people are selling Jews like that. It is also close to the conspiracy theorists who are saying that Jews are owning the world.
I rather want to be humble, and practice my own religion I don't want to be compared to some noble prize winner because that is not what Judaism is about. And despite statistics but it just gives such a distorted vision of Jews in general.
I just don't understand why Jews are feeding the prejudices about Jews by telling non-jews how amazing they are ( I also hate xtians who are totally allover jews, next time I meet someone like that he/she has to pay me for talking to me )
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allthingsblue




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 7:58 am
And how do you feel about black people who feed prejudices about black people?
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Icecreammama




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 8:08 am
In a personal conversation with a non jew, I'd steer clear of speaking of the greatness of jews, how were the chosen people, our civil accomplishments etc. However, the fact that these stereotypes exist, doesn't bother me at all since they'd hate us even if we were the humblest, most unassuming people possible. When a jew is rich, they say jews control the world. When a jew is poor, they'll say miserable jewish wretch. So let them hate as much as they want, and let jews be a proud and successful people as much as we want. Wink
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 8:34 am
allthingsblue wrote:
And how do you feel about black people who feed prejudices about black people?


What does that have to do with the OP?

If you want to talk about Black people, start your own thread.

(BTW, there are tons and tons of Black Jews, so tread carefully.)
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 8:37 am
allthingsblue wrote:
And how do you feel about black people who feed prejudices about black people?


🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

Ok im not black so I feel I don’t have a say what black people say within their communities. Don’t even know why you are bringing this in. It’s for me just a fallacy.
Im a Jew I’m critical about things happening concerning Jews and I have the right to discuss this on a Jewish forum. Being black and or black politics is the issue of black people.
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avrahamama




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 8:52 am
You're making a lot of generalizations. Some people (not even exclusively frum) like to market their culture as being one of high achievement.

Most of my family isn't religious in the least and they're the ones forwarding the list of novel prize winners, if Israeli inventions and innovations, of Jewish impact on world history and culture.

Every culture dies this though. lol James Brown had a song the chorus went like this "say it loud! I'm black and I'm proud!"

Arab culture likes to market their contribution to world history, science and math. And so on.

None of this feeds hatred of the cultures. A big mistake we make is claiming that if we weren't so x or y we wouldn't be so hated. That logic would make it ok for a girls with short skirts to be victims of rape, or black boys with hoodies to be shot by police, and so on.

Aside from keeping shabbat, Nidda, Kashrut,tzniut no other behavior is exclusive to the "frum" community. We can't say only frum people do or say xyz. And that is why they are the subjects of so much derision.

I don't have a problem with people tooting their own horns. I'm not winning any Nobel prizes by virtue of my Jewishness lol. But if someone wants to prove that as a whole the Jewish commitment to intellectual pursuits and grit makes them culturally more inclined to be high achievers and world influencers ... Let them do that. Nobody hates us because of that. They hate us because they hate us.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 9:13 am
I think it can go either way.

Being proud of your nation's accomplishments is a normal thing. Including being proud of your best and brightest. And then, for ethnic/religious minorities there's always pride in being represented, in 'your' people being among the world stars, and again, Jews aren't alone in that. There's plenty of articles like, 'celebrities you didn't know were latino,' 'famous Bulgarians you may have heard of,' 'the Muslim science genius forgotten by history,' etc.

But obviously, like anything, it can be taken too far.

If what you're against is specifically people who take it too far and argue that Jews are superior (because Einstein, etc), I don't think you're going to get a lot of pushback on that. But it's also not really worth spending mental energy on. Some people say weird or stupid things. OK. We don't need to worry about every dumb opinion out there. Only the ones that have a significant impact.

OTOH if you're saying it's wrong for Jews to talk about accomplished/famous Jews, that I can't agree with. Plenty of people do that re: their country or group, and it only feeds prejudice among the kind of people whose prejudice is fed by literally everything Jews say.
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jkl




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 9:24 am
Chickensoupprof wrote:
I've had this topic in my head for a long time. It is something I'm bothered with, and I've heard from some people it bothers them from secular to orthodox.
And it is about: ''WE JEWS ARE THE BEST'' and then showing off with the noble prize winners, famous screen players, musicians, politicians, philanthropists and, actors.
I don't understand why frum people are selling Jews like that. It is also close to the conspiracy theorists who are saying that Jews are owning the world.
I rather want to be humble, and practice my own religion I don't want to be compared to some noble prize winner because that is not what Judaism is about. And despite statistics but it just gives such a distorted vision of Jews in general.
I just don't understand why Jews are feeding the prejudices about Jews by telling non-jews how amazing they are ( I also hate xtians who are totally allover jews, next time I meet someone like that he/she has to pay me for talking to me )


I really don't want to make this thread about covid, but don't you think this works on the opposite extreme as well? 'Dirty Jews', "Jews spreading Disease" is an unfortunate erroneous prejudice that is accepted by many, and our actions during CV appeared to feed that. Our groups had one of the highest numbers in the beginning, our flouting of guidelines was publicly reported, and our resistance to the vaccine and to contribute to herd immunity has been making the rounds this week in the news (in NY).

How's that not feeding prejudices about Jews?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 9:31 am
ora_43 wrote:
Jews aren't alone in that. There's plenty of articles like, 'celebrities you didn't know were latino,' 'famous Bulgarians you may have heard of,' 'the Muslim science genius forgotten by history,' etc.


Has anyone seen "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"? The father of the bride would not shut up about all the great contributions the Greeks have made to Western society! It was a running joke throughout the whole movie.

One reviewer quipped that "It must have been written by a Jew."
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avrahamama




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 9:34 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
Has anyone seen "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"? The father of the bride would not shut up about all the great contributions the Greeks have made to Western society! It was a running joke throughout the whole movie.

One reviewer quipped that "It must have been written by a Jew."


Best movie! And a great example.

That reviewer was probably also a Jew 😂
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 9:45 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
Has anyone seen "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"? The father of the bride would not shut up about all the great contributions the Greeks have made to Western society! It was a running joke throughout the whole movie.

One reviewer quipped that "It must have been written by a Jew."


Or an anti-Semite.

Most groups tout the accomplishments of their members. Watch the reboot of One Day at a Time. (Seriously. Its wonderful.) Lydia, played by the inimitable Rita Morena, constantly talks about the superiority of Cubans.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being proud and loud about the accomplishments of Jews, and all that they have brought to our society. Its not feeding prejudice; anyone who would think so already hates the Jews.

The problem would be suggesting that only Jews are wonderful, and other groups are somehow inferior.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 9:47 am
SixOfWands wrote:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being proud and loud about the accomplishments of Jews, and all that they have brought to our society. Its not feeding prejudice; anyone who would think so already hates the Jews.

The problem would be suggesting that only Jews are wonderful, and other groups are somehow inferior.


THIS, especially the bolded.
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SYA




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 9:50 am
jkl wrote:
I really don't want to make this thread about covid, but don't you think this works on the opposite extreme as well? 'Dirty Jews', "Jews spreading Disease" is an unfortunate erroneous prejudice that is accepted by many, and our actions during CV appeared to feed that. Our groups had one of the highest numbers in the beginning, our flouting of guidelines was publicly reported, and our resistance to the vaccine and to contribute to herd immunity has been making the rounds this week in the news (in NY).

How's that not feeding prejudices about Jews?



I think the reason why so many Frum Jews got Covid is because we live in a very tight community. We have large shuls and schools. Weddings are typically 200+ people almost every night.

In my community, when they got the first Covid test result Fri after Purim at 11am, all teachers were told to pack up Pesach Haggadahs and supplies for each child and to send it home with the kids when dismissed at 11:45, as schools usually close for Pesach 2-3 weeks later and the community is going into a self imposed "lockdown".

We had virtual school, masks, minyan on the porch (social distancing 6 feet)...

The spread already happened before though. At that point it was too late. Parshas Zochur and Purim was when there were mass gatherings that were super spreaders. Class meet ups with the teachers, large Purim seduahs...

We stayed home, did grocery delivery, wore masks when we had to leave home, social distancing, Bris and bar mitzvah was just immediate family, and on the other side levaya was just immediate family and Shiva was on zoom... But because there was the super spreaders already it was too late.
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jkl




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 10:00 am
SYA wrote:
I think the reason why so many Frum Jews got Covid is because we live in a very tight community. We have large shuls and schools. Weddings are typically 200+ people almost every night.

In my community, when they got the first Covid test result Fri after Purim at 11am, all teachers were told to pack up Pesach Haggadahs and supplies for each child and to send it home with the kids when dismissed at 11:45, as schools usually close for Pesach 2-3 weeks later and the community is going into a self imposed "lockdown".

We had virtual school, masks, minyan on the porch (social distancing 6 feet)...

The spread already happened before though. At that point it was too late. Parshas Zochur and Purim was when there were mass gatherings that were super spreaders. Class meet ups with the teachers, large Purim seduahs...

We stayed home, did grocery delivery, wore masks when we had to leave home, social distancing, Bris and bar mitzvah was just immediate family, and on the other side levaya was just immediate family and Shiva was on zoom... But because there was the super spreaders already it was too late.


Oh, I'm not agreeing with the idea of spreading disease and the prejudice of it. I completely understand our dynamics and why it happened as such. I'm just pointing out how it looks like to the world outside, and consequently, how it can continue to feed the prejudice.
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 10:05 am
I don't think discussing the jewish identities of accomplished people is a major issue in feeding prejudices about jews.

I think there are a lot more things that are common enough behaviors and occurrences all over the world that do a much better job of that.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 17 2021, 10:45 am
I really shouldn't have opened this. I don't have the time to give this the thought it deserves. Off the cuff, Rabbi Gottlieb wrote an essay on being chosen in his book The Informed Soul and I'm sure he has easily googleable shiurim on this too.
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