Last week's Double Take (Mishpacha mag)

amother

Thu, Jun 17 2021, 11:47 pm

Been wanting to hear others thoughts on this story since this past Shabbos....

For those who have not read it....

The story is that a girl went to a sleep away camp which was a very high level frum camp. The girl was going through a rebellious stage, and once she came to camp she dragged along a group of girls into her orbit. The girl wore clothes that were not in line with the camp standard, she was listening to secular music and sharing it with her group and boycotting activities. In general they were ruining the environment.

The camp wanted to send her home. They called the mom to come pick her up but the mom was uncooperative and instead called the camp 100 times and sent her Rav to call as well. In the end, the camp director let the girl stay until the end of the summer, because she felt they had no choice.

But their reputation as a camp that does not allow questionable stuff and troubled girls was damaged and it translated into less campers coming to them the following year. They were furious with the mother for sending a girl who she knew was trouble and not a fit for their camp, and allowed her to bring her ipod with secular music against camp rules.

Two years later they receive an application for the sister of the first girl. The camp makes the decision not to accept the sister because they can't afford another "Friedman disaster ". They feel that the way the mother handled it was really poor and that she could not be trusted.

Meanwhile the mother is outraged that they would not accept the sister because of her older sister. They younger sister is a totally different girl, too in every way and she should not have to suffer because of her sister. The younger sister is a perfect candidate for this camp and is really looking forward to it, especially since all her friends are going there.

Also, it explained why she sent the older sister...at the time of applying the girl was still doing fine, and by the time the summer came, the mom was scared to rock the boat, so she had to tread carefully. She sent the daughter off hoping for the best, hoping she will have a turnaround in camp. When the camp called her to pick up her daughter she was advised to fight for her daughter since being sent home could really send her spiraling. She felt she was doing right by her daughter, while the camo felt she was unfair and uncooperative.

I would love to hear what others thought of this story.

smss

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 12:09 am

Things I hated about the way the camp handled it:
1) Not once did anyone reach out to the struggling girl in a supportive way. Her only encounters with camp staff were about getting into trouble.
2) The director didn't even have the decency to call the mother herself to tell her she was kicking her daughter out, she had her secretary do it (!!!).
3) The decision to kick her out seems to have been made without daas Torah and without qualms. There were principals who would fast before kicking a child out of school... it's a very serious thing to do.

amother

Lightyellow

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 12:12 am

I’m going to agree with last two posters. Reading it, I felt so bad for the sister but the more I thought about it. The title should’ve been changed to “my daughter is being punished because of her mom” not my daughters being punished because of her sister”
Ultimately, she sent her older daughter to camp hoping for a turnaround. Most of us would do that. But it was her responsibility to send her daughter to camp conforming to the rules. Once everything came to light, mom was impossible to deal with.
What I really don’t understand is that if she wanted to send her younger daughter, she should’ve preempted the problem by calling beforehand, explaining the situation, apologizing and begging them to give her daughter a chance. Not by trying to slip it under the radar.

Turquoise3

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 8:47 am

smss wrote:

For points 1 and 3, I think camp is different then school in this way as in more business minded and overall more cookie cutter then a school where as a school the purpose is to work with and mold girls while a camp is not really exactly that and doesn't necessarily all the tools and resources a school would have dealing with issues. As for point number 2, yes it's wrong of the director to have her secretary call. Very immature approach. When I'm leadership position one must lead. Not hide behind other ppl etc. But this issue is not specific to camp directors unfortunately

Chickensoupprof

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 10:20 am

Look camps are not a thing here. But I’ve been the kid who got sent away from activities or not invited due challenging behaviour. Like I could have as a kid a meltdown where I got really upset. I really didn’t know what got to me when I was at that age (like I was 8 or so). It was hard for me, if my brother would have not be accepted at certain activities because of me I would feel more sorry. Look, the teen did something which is not ok for a frum camp, but collective punishment is just unfair. Also a kid who is rebellious has pain somewhere they treated her badly, I also got treated that way sometimes. To quote rabbi Trent ztl “just love them”.

amother

Ivory

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 10:25 am

Chickensoupprof wrote:

You're right, but this is a camp and they have a responsibility to all campers. They can't allow rebellious behavior and girls that are a bad influence. The girls problems aren't the camps responsibility. You don't send a child to a camp she doesn't belong at and tell the camp to just deal with it on the expense of other campers. The sister isn't being punished because of her sister, it's because of the way the mother handled the situation.

Chayalle

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 10:36 am

I do agree that the way the mother handled it is what messed things up for the next daughter.

Yes, there may have been some aspects of the way the camp handled it that were not ideal. But the mother not taking responsibility for her daughter and sending her off for the camp to handle is what really messed up the relationship between the camp and the family. Basically there's no trust. The camp knows that if there are any issues, they will be left holding the bag.

I've seen this type of situation play out with schools too, where, if a parent doesn't take responsibility for their child's issues or struggles, the relationship with the school will be off. And I've seen the converse, where the school knows that the family will do whatever they can to support a struggling child, and the school respects that.

When I read the article, I was thinking imagine what this would be like if it was a physical issue; like the family sent a child with an eating disorder to camp, without informing the camp and expecting the camp to take care of the issue, or something like that.

smss

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 12:13 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I've seen this type of situation play out with schools too, where, if a parent doesn't take responsibility for their child's issues or struggles, the relationship with the school will be off. And I've seen the converse, where the school knows that the family will do whatever they can to support a struggling child, and the school respects that.

I wonder if this is an in-town vs OOT mentality thing.

OOT schools usually accept everyone and definitely end up with many students whose parents are unable or unwilling to help them, or are maybe partly the cause of their struggles in a lot of ways.

We still feel a responsibility to every student, regardless of how much or little their parents are doing, and we don't punish students for the actions of their parents. And we are very, very wary of expelling a student. That would be an absolute last resort and only done with daas Torah, after absolutely everything has been tried.

(In my OOT high school, my principal would only ever "find a different school" for a student, not expel them per se. No one was kicked out with nowhere else to go, he found them another place that was better for their needs.)

amother

Glitter

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 12:19 pm

smss wrote:

This wasn't a school. Would you do the same in a camp?

A camp has more limited facilities and the girls have a lot of choice about where they go, instead of going to the local school.

amother

Lightyellow

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 1:08 pm

Well smss, you live in a better world. Yes! This is an in town thing. But the thread with the teen being isolated because his /her father didn’t vaccinate got me thinking. Every community has their red lines. Where I live, no one would dream of isolating kids over the vaccine. Yet, when my son went otd my home became a no go zone. It was painful beyond belief. Yet people felt there was a spiritual contagion going on. It looks like in some oot communities no one understands yet they do understand isolating a child due to parents non vaccinations?!???
In town camps adhere to very strict laws. They expect full parental cooperation with their standards. I guess We all can’t judge each other and wait for the day where we can all JUST ACCEPT.

amother

Ivory

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 1:15 pm

smss wrote:

I think kicking a child out of camp is also extremely damaging and should be a last resort. The camp didn't try anything!

The girl has managed to badly influence other girls already. A camp isn't supposed to deal with a problem kid. They have a responsibility to the other campers to keep the environment safe. That girl broke the rules and was a bad influence on other girls, it's over enough of a reason to kick her out of camp. A camp isn't a school and they usually don't have the resources to deal with problem kids.

amother

Ivory

Fri, Jun 18 2021, 1:17 pm

amother [ Lightyellow ] wrote:

So camps and schools need to accept kids that break the rules and are a bad influence on other kids?
Parents aren't doing their kids a favor by placing them in a school or camp where they don't belong and feel stifled.