Is there any kosher excuse for this? (Whatsapp related)

amother

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 8:34 pm

Please answer carefully because this is very personal and sensitive. I don't want to do harm by jumping to a negative conclusion, but I also don't want to be naively fooled by an excuse that isn't really good.

If you tap on a whatsapp message that you sent on whatsapp and then you tap "info," and it shows that the message was delivered at the time you sent it (gray checks) and then read (blue checks) at a time that it was already Shabbos. By a few hours, and the person is definitely in the same time zone. And it happened more than once.

Does this mean that the person does not keep Shabbos or is there some other reason for this happening?! And if I confront them and they have some reason, is that believable or do I trust the whatsapp info above their word?

Sesame

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 9:01 pm

My internet cut out and I put my phone away but didn’t switch it off and eventually, after I brought in Shabbos, internet went back on causing a message to be sent… nothing I could do about that obviously
Could be there’s a reason, could be not. Who knows? But why do you need to confront them (if it’s not spouse or child)? Why is it your business? Why are you checking for this info? If you’re so concerned, maybe you can avoid sending messages close to Shabbos.
Was it possible they brought in Shabbos later than you but still before halachicly Shabbos? (There can be a difference of a few hours in the summer in some places.) A glitch in connection like my story? The conversation was left open on their phone before they brought Shabbos in?

small bean

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 9:10 pm

If they were texting you and left the phone on the conversation, it will show read even if they didn't actually read it.

simcha2

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 9:15 pm

Are you sure they're in the same time zone? I recently traveled abroad for a few days and told very few people that I was going. (I realized that I posted to imamother while it was still shabbat in the US and felt funny about it at the time).

amother

Darkblue

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 9:18 pm

I woke up at 2 am once very disoriented and opened my phone and was checking whatsapp before I realized it was friday night. It happens sometimes.

amother

Khaki

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 9:24 pm

several years ago I sent a text to my sister erev shabbos. a good few hours before shabbos. after shabbos I see she asks me how I sent a message after candle lighting?? somehow it went through hours later. it was so weird. same time zone, phone wasn't turned off, etc.

amother

DarkOrange

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 9:40 pm

amother [ Darkblue ] wrote:

I woke up at 2 am once very disoriented and opened my phone and was checking whatsapp before I realized it was friday night. It happens sometimes.

Lol and that’s why my phone is shut off in a drawer somewhere. It’s like a can finally be free of my phone!!

MommyM

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 9:44 pm

small bean wrote:

If they were texting you and left the phone on the conversation, it will show read even if they didn't actually read it.

This. Also, it's possible they left their Whatsapp open on their computer to your chat.

amother

Darkblue

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 9:46 pm

amother [ DarkOrange ] wrote:

Lol and that’s why my phone is shut off in a drawer somewhere. It’s like a can finally be free of my phone!!

I don't have a house phone so I keep it on near my bed so that I have it in case of emergency.

amother

DarkOrange

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 9:48 pm

amother [ Darkblue ] wrote:

I don't have a house phone so I keep it on near my bed so that I have it in case of emergency.

Yeah my husband would keep his phone on. But we just got house phones for this reason. YT/Shabbos upstairs or downstairs I don’t have to think about it.

Zehava

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 9:55 pm

Yeah if a laptop is left on messages will show read even when they’re not. I used to get so mad at dh before I realized this.

amother

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 10:29 pm

If it was a computer left open, then it would have been open since before shabbos and would show up as having been read before shabbos.

I have seen messages that only went through a while after they were sent. But in this case I knew the messages had been sent and delivered before Shabbos.

I am absolutely positive that the receiver was in the same time zone.

The time difference was too significant to be explained by people keeping different candle lighting times.

And yes this is someone close enough to me that "mind your own business" is not an answer.

Teomima

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 11:06 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Sorry, but MYOB is always an answer. No matter who it is.

amother

Peony

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 11:11 pm

About time zones...

Just wanted to mention that Florida is in the same tome zone as New York. (EST)

And yet, in the winter , Shabbos is an hour later in FL than NY.

In the summer, shabbos comes in about an hour EARLIER in FL than NY.

People who come to FL only in the winter may not realize this.

DrMom

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 11:11 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Barring any technological glitch that can explain this, this person may have a problem with WhatsApp addiction/media addiction/smartphone addiction.

If you care about this person, then perhaps don't send him/her whatsapps close to Shabbat. Lifnei Iver...

Stars

Sat, Jun 19 2021, 11:15 pm

MYOB is the answer. Sorry.
For the dlkz: maybe their phone fell and somehow the message got read in the process somehow. Or a toddler did it.