Hasidic Mother of 10 Becomes Doctor

monkeymamma

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 6:45 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Guys. Chill. This is an overwhelmingly positive human interest story in the NYT about chassidim, specifically a very impressive chassidish woman and all people are doing is complaining. LOL

Nah. Its more about a BT who grew up secular, became frum and was still able to pursue her dreams despite being frum. So congrats but girls who grow up in more insular chasidish communities do not have the same advantages that this woman has. Why is it so difficult for some people to acknowledge that?

InnerMe

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 6:47 pm

Amarante wrote:

The reporter is reporting what the woman told her. How else would she know the woman didn’t drive in her neighborhood and the reason she didn’t.

Most secular people would have no idea about not driving unless they were told.

I am finding it interesting that people are so defensive about accurate reporting based on what the woman herself told the reporter. Should not driving be kept a secret.

I'm not sure if you are intentionally being dense.

Reporters don't just "write what the woman tells her."

If someone were to tell a reporter in sharing their story "the black thug across the street scared me because blacks are scary people in my neighborhood" would the reporter include that?

Would they fact check it?

Would they remove completely because it's unPC?

Facts should be included. But the reporter has a lot of control in exactly how he is portraying, and he is slanting the words.

In this particular case it is very obviously slanted towards portraying the chassidish community as some community of backwards aliens.

You could leave the facts without sensationalizing. And no, "the woman said" is not a good enough excuse.

monkeymamma

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 6:49 pm

qwerty4 wrote:

I know of a couple of men from Kiryas Joel that are on their path to become an MD. All stayed in the community.

Its interesting that not only do the men from KJ learn Gemarah (and can graduate with a btl which the women cant do) but they also become paramedics/emt's (aka hatzala) so going to medical school is not so farfetched. Now do a story on these men who are going to med school if you truly want to inspire other chasidish men to do the same thing and/or to pursue their goals.
Not sure if the women would have the same opportunities though for many different reasons including the fact that they are usually the ones raising the children (while the husband learns or works whatever the case may be) etc.

monkeymamma

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 6:53 pm

bruriyah wrote:

the question remains, would a typical chassidish girl, non-BT, get the same green light to go to medical school if she asked her chassidishe Rebbe?

I believe the satmar girls were told not to go to college altogether so not sure any of them would get the blessing to go to medical school. There could be outliers of course who are going to college but that is not typical as the struggle is great so you have to be very motivated and committed to survive the journey from a subpar satmar education where girls dont graduate high school to college where they compete with highly educated people from other places and are at an obvious disadvantage because of it.

tigerwife

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 7:05 pm

monkeymamma wrote:

It’s not just about being frum, which has its own challenges. She had a large family before going back to school and continued having children through school. It sounds like she managed to pursue her studies without compromising on her values- no matter what her background was, she is now chassidish and remained true to herself! It’s obvious that she had an extremely supportive spouse who picked up a lot of slack, and I’m sure her kids are great and adaptable. Still, It’s a big deal, even if she may have been academically ahead.

monkeymamma

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 7:07 pm

tigerwife wrote:

And I already gave her credit for that but her secular background was definitely a major help and something that satmar girls dont have (as they would also have to struggle with their big families as well so that is not the issue).

sushilover

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 7:52 pm

monkeymamma wrote:

yet here we have a woman who presents herself as chasidish saying, see its not that difficult, if I can do it then so can you. But it disregards the actual struggles that a satmar woman would have in having to start from scratch (in terms of getting a ged and starting college without any credits whatsoever) and navigating a world that a BT is already familiar with. Its almost like a satmar women is being blamed for not being able to do the same thing that this BT woman can do when its not really the fault of the satmar woman that her school didnt provide the rigorous academic education that this BT woman received in her secular schools. Why put that extra burden on satmar women instead of acknowledging that there would be additional struggles if she chooses to become a doctor (other than just having a large family)?

I don't understand how you can read such an article and come away with the feeling that she is saying, "see if I can do it so can you". No one here is blaming other satmar mothers for not becoming doctors. I don't know where you got that idea.

When I once posted a story about a frum woman who won a half marathon, no one jumped in to compare her to someone who who would have a harder time winning a marathon. No one felt like her accomplishment was somehow her saying "see it's not so difficult". No one pretended that her accomplishments aren't such a big deal because of whatever privileges she may have had. No one claimed that she was somehow disregarding the struggles of other frum athletes.

Dr. Friedman didn't hide her background or her education. She is still a chassidish mother who accomplished something amazing.

Why do we have to compare her to someone who would have it harder?

bruriyah

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 8:05 pm

mochamix18 wrote:

This article gives a little more background
https://jewishstandard.timesof.....tive/
This woman sounds amazing abs I’m glad my little daughter is growing up with role models like her, Ruchie Frier, Beatie Deutch and Chanie Neuberger just to name a few.

All of these women are outstanding role models and ALL of them struggled against their "establishment". Ruchie Frier-watch 93Queen, Beatie opened up on facebook about having to initially hide her running from her kids' schools (till she found a more suitable school) and you can google and interview by Ann Neuberger talking about how her BY education did not prepare her for her career.

I think people here are getting upset bec the NYT article makes it sound like there is "hope" on the side of the "establishment". But the hope is coming from these women, NOT the establishment.

dancingqueen

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 8:40 pm

monkeymamma wrote:

I acknowledge that 💯, but as I recall when articles were published in papers like the NYT about how the secular studies in chassidish schools are seriously lacking everyone was all up in arms.

She’s still a very impressive woman and it’s good news about the Jews.

bruriyah

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 10:29 pm

monkeymamma wrote:

I know this wasn't the focus of your post, but EMT and even paramedic to med school is a far far far road.

mom2mysouls

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 10:59 pm

[quote="chanchy123"]But she wasn’t secular when she married a chossid- she was a BT and chose to become chassidish and marry a chassidish man.
Anyone else wonder about her wearing a wig as the first step of becoming frum before marriage? It’s almost s stupid as living a life revolving around speaking Yiddish.
It’s one of those cases where you don’t know if the journalist is clueless or the piece is just very poorly written.[/quote

She married a chossid. Hmm..I have a strange feeling he did not grow up chassidish. I could be wrong.

TriAspora

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 11:37 pm

So if a chassidish woman from a community where schools are better (for example, Belgium or Canada) earns an advance degree, should her story also include a disclaimer that not every chassidic girl has such options? As much as this is true, celebrating someone's journey does not mean that you need to include a "compare and contrast" addendum.

mochamix18

Tue, Jun 29 2021, 2:53 am

I agree with the bolded 💯.

bruriyah wrote:

Tue, Jun 29 2021, 4:19 am

[quote="mom2mysouls"]

chanchy123 wrote:

But she wasn’t secular when she married a chossid- she was a BT and chose to become chassidish and marry a chassidish man.
Anyone else wonder about her wearing a wig as the first step of becoming frum before marriage? It’s almost s stupid as living a life revolving around speaking Yiddish.
It’s one of those cases where you don’t know if the journalist is clueless or the piece is just very poorly written.[/quote

She married a chossid. Hmm..I have a strange feeling he did not grow up chassidish. I could be wrong.

No he didn’t.

essie14

Tue, Jun 29 2021, 5:16 am

monkeymamma wrote:

Exactly.
I grew up MO and had a very rigorous secular education and went to secular university. If I were to become chassidish now, anything I accomplish or pursue would be with that background which gives me a huge advantage over chassidish girls who grew up chassidish from day 1 and received a very different education than I did.

Alternative

Tue, Jun 29 2021, 6:31 am

essie14 wrote:

This.
Her children will not have the same advantages she did. It will be much harder for a son or daughter of hers to decide to become a doctor.

This said, it's still incredible to become a doctor with such a large family. I wonder how it worked tachlis. Who watched the kids etc.

Tue, Jun 29 2021, 7:35 am

Alternative wrote:

Her husband.

Alternative

Tue, Jun 29 2021, 7:48 am

r1 wrote:

Her husband.

Did he work less than f/t?
I'm always curious about these things. It does require a big support system to have two people working demanding jobs.
Usually when it's the man out of the house all day in a demanding job, we just assume the wife will cut back hours and take over more childcare. I wonder if that's what happened here, or if the kids took care of each other, or if they had lots of hired help.

allthingsblue

Tue, Jun 29 2021, 8:21 am

Alternative wrote:

Article says he worked night shift so he could care for kids during the day.