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Hasidic Mother of 10 Becomes Doctor
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 10:04 am
TriAspora wrote:
So if a chassidish woman from a community where schools are better (for example, Belgium or Canada) earns an advance degree, should her story also include a disclaimer that not every chassidic girl has such options? As much as this is true, celebrating someone's journey does not mean that you need to include a "compare and contrast" addendum.

Are you really comparing Belgium or Canadian chassidish schooling with an Ivy League secular education?
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mom2mysouls




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 10:36 am
r1 wrote:
No he didn’t.


My husband is from BT family. One look at the picture he told me this guy is not from chassidish background...

This couple must be amazing. Kol hakovod to them. And I'm happy to hear we have more frum doctors. It's a good thing

I used to think that chassidish meant growing up belonging to a chassidus. But today, anyone can put on a shtreimel, grow peyos, etc. and call themselves chassidish. Even people with no peyos, can consider themselves chassidish.
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chestnut




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 11:45 am
mom2mysouls wrote:
My husband is from BT family. One look at the picture he told me this guy is not from chassidish background...

This couple must be amazing. Kol hakovod to them. And I'm happy to hear we have more frum doctors. It's a good thing

I used to think that chassidish meant growing up belonging to a chassidus. But today, anyone can put on a shtreimel, grow peyos, etc. and call themselves chassidish. Even people with no peyos, can consider themselves chassidish.

Out of curiosity, what gives away that her husband isn't from chassidishe background?
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 12:14 pm
mom2mysouls wrote:
My husband is from BT family. One look at the picture he told me this guy is not from chassidish background...

This couple must be amazing. Kol hakovod to them. And I'm happy to hear we have more frum doctors. It's a good thing

I used to think that chassidish meant growing up belonging to a chassidus. But today, anyone can put on a shtreimel, grow peyos, etc. and call themselves chassidish. Even people with no peyos, can consider themselves chassidish.

What? Chassidish is such a broad term, and it encompasses so many people. I find it strange that on this site, people equate Chassidish with "grew up in Satmar Williamsburg". There are so many other types of Chassidish... and so many other places they can live.

Besides, to an outsider we are all Chassidish. DH has no Chassidish blood in him whatsoever and doesn't even have peyos (he does have a beard and wears a white shirt) but I'm sure the New York Times would refer to him as a Hasidic man. As would basically anyone else outside of our own insular community.

You can't take these things so seriously. And even with every qualification mentioned on this thread, it's still an amazing accomplishment.
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monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 12:17 pm
sushilover wrote:
I don't understand how you can read such an article and come away with the feeling that she is saying, "see if I can do it so can you". No one here is blaming other satmar mothers for not becoming doctors. I don't know where you got that idea.

When I once posted a story about a frum woman who won a half marathon, no one jumped in to compare her to someone who who would have a harder time winning a marathon. No one felt like her accomplishment was somehow her saying "see it's not so difficult". No one pretended that her accomplishments aren't such a big deal because of whatever privileges she may have had. No one claimed that she was somehow disregarding the struggles of other frum athletes.

Dr. Friedman didn't hide her background or her education. She is still a chassidish mother who accomplished something amazing.

Why do we have to compare her to someone who would have it harder?

Whats the point of the article? If you want to be chasidishe then great, go ahead and be chasidish. But that also means that you follow the path that chasidim follow and we know that chasidim do not put their women in newspapers (or become doctors). But here we have a woman claiming to be chasidish who went to the secular newspaper to brag about her becoming a doctor.
When someone like Flatbushgirl, who isnt even chasidish, goes to the secular media and puts her story/picture in, you (as in plural) get upset because she has an agenda and is trying to override the Jewish newspapers but why are you ok with a chasidishe woman doing the same thing? What exactly is someone claiming to be chasidish trying to accomplish by going to the secular media with her story?
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mom2mysouls




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 3:06 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
What? Chassidish is such a broad term, and it encompasses so many people. I find it strange that on this site, people equate Chassidish with "grew up in Satmar Williamsburg". There are so many other types of Chassidish... and so many other places they can live.

Besides, to an outsider we are all Chassidish. DH has no Chassidish blood in him whatsoever and doesn't even have peyos (he does have a beard and wears a white shirt) but I'm sure the New York Times would refer to him as a Hasidic man. As would basically anyone else outside of our own insular community.

You can't take these things so seriously. And even with every qualification mentioned on this thread, it's still an amazing accomplishment.


I'm saying that today there is no clear distinction between chassidim nd non chassidim. There are all types and variations..

What do you mean by the bolded above?
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 6:07 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
Whats the point of the article? If you want to be chasidishe then great, go ahead and be chasidish. But that also means that you follow the path that chasidim follow and we know that chasidim do not put their women in newspapers (or become doctors). But here we have a woman claiming to be chasidish who went to the secular newspaper to brag about her becoming a doctor.
When someone like Flatbushgirl, who isnt even chasidish, goes to the secular media and puts her story/picture in, you (as in plural) get upset because she has an agenda and is trying to override the Jewish newspapers but why are you ok with a chasidishe woman doing the same thing? What exactly is someone claiming to be chasidish trying to accomplish by going to the secular media with her story?


She is not "claiming" to be chassidish. She is.

Are you more upset that she is in a newspaper or that she became a doctor?
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monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 6:16 pm
sushilover wrote:
She is not "claiming" to be chassidish. She is.

Are you more upset that she is in a newspaper or that she became a doctor?

You didnt answer my question. What is the point of the article? If she is a chasidishe woman and follows the minhagim then going to the secular media with her story and putting her picture in the paper is going against the community where they dont put pictures of women in newspapers. Did she ask her Rabbi if it was ok for her to do this? And why do people have a problem with someone like Flatbushgirl doing something like this yet have no problem with a chasidishe woman doing it? Why go to the secular media and brag about becoming a doctor (which is something chasidishe women wouldnt do, not the dr part and not the secular media part)? What is the point of this article?
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 6:43 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
You didnt answer my question. What is the point of the article? If she is a chasidishe woman and follows the minhagim then going to the secular media with her story and putting her picture in the paper is going against the community where they dont put pictures of women in newspapers. Did she ask her Rabbi if it was ok for her to do this? And why do people have a problem with someone like Flatbushgirl doing something like this yet have no problem with a chasidishe woman doing it? Why go to the secular media and brag about becoming a doctor (which is something chasidishe women wouldnt do, not the dr part and not the secular media part)? What is the point of this article?


The point of the story is that there is a woman who graduated from medical school while raising nine children, giving birth to three, was at the top of her class...and all without lowering her standards as a chassidishe woman. She awesome and I like reading about awesome people. I don't really care if she did or did not ask her rabbi about publishing pictures. It's not such a major issue and it doesn't define chasidishkeit. In any case, I'm sure there are many rabbanim who are ok with it on a case by case basis.

I don't know too much about flatbushgirl, but I'd imagine that if people have issues with her, it's because of her world view, not because she allowed the media to print pictures of her.

Now can you answer my question? What bothers you more? The fact that she became a doctor or the fact that she published a picture of herself?
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monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 8:29 pm
sushilover wrote:
The point of the story is that there is a woman who graduated from medical school while raising nine children, giving birth to three, was at the top of her class...and all without lowering her standards as a chassidishe woman. She awesome and I like reading about awesome people. I don't really care if she did or did not ask her rabbi about publishing pictures. It's not such a major issue and it doesn't define chasidishkeit. In any case, I'm sure there are many rabbanim who are ok with it on a case by case basis.

I don't know too much about flatbushgirl, but I'd imagine that if people have issues with her, it's because of her world view, not because she allowed the media to print pictures of her.

Now can you answer my question? What bothers you more? The fact that she became a doctor or the fact that she published a picture of herself?

Great. And again, Kol Hakavod to her. But if a girl who grew up chasidish, went to satmar (a yiddish speaking school where no one graduates high school), and also had a big family decided to become a doctor. If Dr. Friedman struggled even with her highly academic secular education then imagine how much more a satmar girl would struggle. That is all we are saying. I get that you dont really understand what it means to struggle academically because the school you went to didnt provide a good education and you should never understand the struggle. But why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that a ffb chasidishe woman would struggle ten times more than Dr. Friedman did? And why didnt the article mention it and explain why an ffb chasidishe woman would have a much harder time than Dr Friedman did?
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 8:37 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
Great. And again, Kol Hakavod to her. But if a girl who grew up chasidish, went to satmar (a yiddish speaking school where no one graduates high school), and also had a big family decided to become a doctor. If Dr. Friedman struggled even with her highly academic secular education then imagine how much more a satmar girl would struggle. That is all we are saying. I get that you dont really understand what it means to struggle academically because the school you went to didnt provide a good education and you should never understand the struggle. But why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that a ffb chasidishe woman would struggle ten times more than Dr. Friedman did? And why didnt the article mention it and explain why an ffb chasidishe woman would have a much harder time than Dr Friedman did?


At the risk of being called obtuse, I think there would have been endless posts about the anti Semitic agenda if the article discussed inferior schools that effectively made it impossible for Chassidic people to do anything requiring academic learning.

This was intended to be a feel good piece about the accomplishments of a remarkable woman. The reporter wrote what she learned from Dr. Friedman and didn’t do a deep investigation into Chassidic education etc.

Why can’t people just celebrate the achievements of someone who would have been remarkable if she were secular, Muslim, Catholic as almost no women or really men go to medical school while also raising a large family and birthing three children while actually in school.
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monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 8:47 pm
Amarante wrote:
At the risk of being called obtuse, I think there would have been endless posts about the anti Semitic agenda if the article discussed inferior schools that effectively made it impossible for Chassidic people to do anything requiring academic learning.

This was intended to be a feel good piece about the accomplishments of a remarkable woman. The reporter wrote what she learned from Dr. Friedman and didn’t do a deep investigation into Chassidic education etc.

Why can’t people just celebrate the achievements of someone who would have been remarkable if she were secular, Muslim, Catholic as almost no women or really men go to medical school while also raising a large family and birthing three children while actually in school.

Its disingenuous and dismisses the struggles that ffb chasidishe women face if they want to pursue a secular education. And yes, professors read this and say what is wrong with you, if she was able to do it then why cant you because they dont understand the nuances involved. So good for you for not understanding the struggles I am referring to but to those who do struggle, just know that you are being heard and understood and I hope no one compares you to this bt who got a highly academic secular education before becoming frum. Dont give up.
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 8:53 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
Its disingenuous and dismisses the struggles that ffb chasidishe women face if they want to pursue a secular education. And yes, professors read this and say what is wrong with you, if she was able to do it then why cant you because they dont understand the nuances involved. So good for you for not understanding the struggles I am referring to but to those who do struggle, just know that you are being heard and understood and I hope no one compares you to this bt who got a highly academic secular education before becoming frum. Dont give up.


I understand the struggle.

I am merely pointing out that however the article was written, people would have complained.

Do you think people would not have been furious if the article was about how she managed to do this only because she was not really oppressed like a “normal” Chassidic woman who would have received an inferior education and would have been raised to accept that this kind of profession was completely unacceptable.

Then the thread would have been about how dare they write about the community n such an unflattering manner.
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monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 8:59 pm
Amarante wrote:
I understand the struggle.

I am merely pointing out that however the article was written, people would have complained.

Do you think people would not have been furious if the article was about how she managed to do this only because she was not really oppressed like a “normal” Chassidic woman who would have received an inferior education and would have been raised to accept that this kind of profession was completely unacceptable.

Then the thread would have been about how dare they write about the community n such an unflattering manner.

I am not so sure its reflects positively on the community to begin with being that she was told not to pursue her interest (by other chasidishe people), had to ask for permission (from a man!) to pursue her degree, there arent any female doctors in the community to begin with (whats wrong with the girls that they cant be doctors), driving was an issue, etc. so perhaps it would have been better not to have it written by the secular media in the first place. But since it was written then it would have been nice to have the nuances explained as to why it would be a greater struggle for an ffb chasidishe woman to become a doctor than it was for Dr Friedman.
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TriAspora




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 9:12 pm
Zehava wrote:
Are you really comparing Belgium or Canadian chassidish schooling with an Ivy League secular education?


Not comparing. Just pointing out that a highly talented person from a school where secular subjects are taught on a decent level still has a good chance of excelling in college and beyond - even if it's not an Ivy League prep school. And yes, chassidish schools providing decent secular education exist in some places. I predict a few more chassidic doctors in the coming years, and not just BTs.
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 9:18 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
Its disingenuous and dismisses the struggles that ffb chasidishe women face if they want to pursue a secular education. And yes, professors read this and say what is wrong with you, if she was able to do it then why cant you because they dont understand the nuances involved. So good for you for not understanding the struggles I am referring to but to those who do struggle, just know that you are being heard and understood and I hope no one compares you to this bt who got a highly academic secular education before becoming frum. Dont give up.


Should we also complain that writing a story about a woman with 9 children is dismissive of women with 10? That writing about a woman with a supportive husband is dismissive of single mothers?

You are entitled to your opinions and whatever emotions an article triggers within you. It just isn't logical to say her story is dismissive, disingenuous, or negative in any way. Jmho.
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monkeymamma




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 29 2021, 9:25 pm
sushilover wrote:
Should we also complain that writing a story about a woman with 9 children is dismissive of women with 10? That writing about a woman with a supportive husband is dismissive of single mothers?

You are entitled to your opinions and whatever emotions an article triggers within you. It just isn't logical to say her story is dismissive, disingenuous, or negative in any way. Jmho.

I am not really sure what your argument is but will acknowledge your repeated ad hominem attacks. If you are satisfied with the article then good for you but the rest of us have the right to discuss it without being attacked for it. She went public and opened it to scrutiny so not sure what you are complaining about that we are doing exactly that. But glad you dont understand the struggles and hope you never understand it. That is all.
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 12:01 am
monkeymamma wrote:
I am not really sure what your argument is but will acknowledge your repeated ad hominem attacks. If you are satisfied with the article then good for you but the rest of us have the right to discuss it without being attacked for it. She went public and opened it to scrutiny so not sure what you are complaining about that we are doing exactly that. But glad you dont understand the struggles and hope you never understand it. That is all.


It was never my intention to attack you. I'm sorry. I thought I was debating your arguments, not insulting you personally. Please tell me where I did so and I'll edit my posts.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 02 2021, 12:12 am
small bean wrote:
One of the pediatricians by my doc is also a chassidish women. I never thought about it un to l this thread. I doubt she's a bt because her yiddish accent is to strong.


My secular parents had very pronounced yiddish accents
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 02 2021, 5:21 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
You didnt answer my question. What is the point of the article? If she is a chasidishe woman and follows the minhagim then going to the secular media with her story and putting her picture in the paper is going against the community where they dont put pictures of women in newspapers. Did she ask her Rabbi if it was ok for her to do this? And why do people have a problem with someone like Flatbushgirl doing something like this yet have no problem with a chasidishe woman doing it? Why go to the secular media and brag about becoming a doctor (which is something chasidishe women wouldnt do, not the dr part and not the secular media part)? What is the point of this article?


For the same reason that Lipa blows his nose the wrong way and everyone is rodeif him

But until he became completely secular again, Mattisyahu was the COOLEST
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