We work hard and you chill- and then we pay your taxes!

amother

Snapdragon

Sat, Jun 26 2021, 5:29 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Newsflash: being a stay at home
Mom is a job too- otherwise you would be paying someone else for all the services stay at home mother does.

One will usually earn enough to cover the cost of babysitting and be left over with extra money which should help the household.

amother

Geranium

Sat, Jun 26 2021, 7:00 pm

amother [ Snapdragon ] wrote:

One will usually earn enough to cover the cost of babysitting and be left over with extra money which should help the household.

I hate to say this but when we made the cheshbon, after childcare and with the increased tax bracket and loss of our children's subsidized insurance, it actually doesn't pay for me to work.

amother

Clover

Sat, Jun 26 2021, 8:17 pm

Many people work very hard and don't make enough money. In fact, low income workers tend to work more hours, since they need to work more hours to make the amount of money needed. Only here I see people jealous of people who unfortunately need financial assistance. You never know what people are going through.

amother

Yarrow

Sat, Jun 26 2021, 8:29 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Newsflash: being a stay at home
Mom is a job too- otherwise you would be paying someone else for all the services stay at home mother does.

It is a job. But its also a luxury that many can't afford. I would love to stay home and care for my kids but I can't afford not to work, even if I don't come home with as much as I would like after paying for childcare.

amother

Clover

Sat, Jun 26 2021, 8:35 pm

amother [ Yarrow ] wrote:

Some people would come with negative income if they went out to work and needed to pay childcare. It's not a choice for many women who wouldn't be able to earn more than an office job salary and wouldn't be able to pay childcare for a baby plus 3 kids in nursery.

amother

Blush

Sat, Jun 26 2021, 10:25 pm

amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:

wow. your comment makes you sound super bitter, or super jealous. none of my kollel friends shnorr. being open to another side is always a nice thing..

And you sound super immature.
I’m pretty sure my husband was in Kollel longer then yours is (you sound very young) and mine was in Kollel for many years.
I had a great career so even though I would have liked to cut down my hours, I also loved my jobs. My husband insisted in full time help. That means a lady all day every day including Shabbos and Sunday so b”h I was really fine. I could if given up on some help and one of my jobs, but I loved my jobs and my help.
We are very, very comfortable now, so im laughing that you think im jealous.
Believe me I have nothing to be jealous of. I just think it’s sad that so many people are so not self sufficient and have such a self centred attitude

amother

Razzmatazz

Sat, Jun 26 2021, 10:32 pm

amother [ Snowflake ] wrote:

She didn't say it solves all problems. It's a tool that you can fall back as to not get stuck in poverty. A degree is definitely a worthwhile tool in your belt. For example, when your small children grow up a bit more, you have with what to rejoin the workforce. SAHMs, with no degrees, have a difficult time reentering the workforce for decent pay.

We tell our girls to stay away from college, have lots of children, and discourage BC. We discourage our boys to gain skills, and tell them to learn a year or two or more. We are basically setting them up for a lifetime of poverty. It is the few lucky ones who break out of the mold easily. If either the dw or dh have a degree, it is something they can fall back on to try to break the mold.

I’m such a woman. Trying to break in now and lost.
What’s step 1? Want a degree and not sure which field to enter. Started college years ago to become a therapist, but I see how many people come on here to talk about how awful their chosen fields are.

amother

Razzmatazz

Sat, Jun 26 2021, 10:34 pm

DVOM wrote:

We're at the top end of this income bracket, slowly pulling out of it and up.

It's not a super wealthy lifestyle, but I don't think you could possibly call it poor. We've been poor. There's no comparison.

We have modest, carefully budgeted cars, vacations, home improvement projects, toys and extracurriculars for our kids. We can make modest, carefully budgeted simchos without borrowing or going into debt. We pay our tuition. We pay our bills. We can afford groceries and gas and dinner at a pizza store. If we wanted it (we don't) we could even budget for a Doona!

Tell me more ❤️ How are you doing it? I’m the one who posted about being on the bottom of this bracket...

amother

Firebrick

Sat, Jun 26 2021, 11:44 pm

amother [ Razzmatazz ] wrote:

DONT DO SPEECH!!!!
im a speech therapist!!! I walk away with nothing a the end of the month!! and I only have 1 baby now. im petrified about whats going to be when we have a big family iyh

amother

Beige

Sat, Jun 26 2021, 11:51 pm

amother [ Clover ] wrote:

"
The problem is the big jump. People who are just barely eligible for financial assistance are much better off compared to people who are just barely not eligible. The way financial assistance is structured leaves some people unable to afford to earn more money.

ora_43

Sun, Jun 27 2021, 1:57 am

OP, your SIL sounds clueless, but I wouldn't make a whole societal issue out of it.

I mean, yeah, there are SAHMs (and also plenty of non-SAHMs) who don't grasp the difference between 'a lot of money' and 'a lot of money to spend after paying basic expenses'. But OTOH, there are also middle-class people who don't grasp the difference between 'not much money after paying for a middle-class lifestyle' and 'not much money.'

And overall I'd say most people above a certain age get it, in both directions.

Anyway. Re: your SIL, not that you asked for advice, but I'd say:

1. make sure family events are affordable for everyone.

2. if you don't want to pay for others, don't.

And if said others are younger than you, or just have less experience with employment/real life, it might be doing them a kindness to say why. Not in the sense of "because if you want things you can darn well work for them like I do, you lazy bum" but in the sense of "haha, I sure wish that having a good income meant having plenty to spend on stuff like this! Unfortunately, if we want to be able to pay for taxes, tuition(/daycare), and rent, we have to be really careful with our spending on everything else."

They might just genuinely not realize how much things like daycare cost. In which case, it'd be nice of you to clue them in.

amother

Blush

Sun, Jun 27 2021, 2:09 am

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

I see so many women on here that say "we have no money, but I'm a stay at home mom and it's too hard for me to work. I have kids to take care of!" And if you dare say that she has to go and get a full-time job because that's life, everyone on this site will murder you.

Women have been raised in our society to be scared to work. Scared of college because it's not frum enough. Told from the time they were a teenager to get an easy job so that they can have lots of babies. Then told they can't take birth control. Then also their husband should learn for at least the first year or two, and also he can't have any college or work experience.

We literally teach our children how to remain in poverty. And then the people that don't follow this path are both thought of as super modern, not allowed in their schools. Also, people who "have standards" won't let their kids play with our kids. (aka, the "neighbor who hates smartphones thinks my daughter is a bad influence" thread). But our money is still good.

There's a Go Fund Me every second, there's a Chesed Fund started every minute. I thank Hashem I'm giving and not receiving, but at some point we all can't support this anymore.

Women: Get a decent degree, and expect that one day you might use it.

This exactly.

amother

Orange

Sun, Jun 27 2021, 3:42 am

amother [ Geranium ] wrote:

I hate to say this but when we made the cheshbon, after childcare and with the increased tax bracket and loss of our children's subsidized insurance, it actually doesn't pay for me to work.

This
I'm an sahm, and have never gone to work because the little I'd bring home doesn't make it worth it to change our lifestyle. Plus we'd lose out on govt health insurance.
It's not as simple as get a degree->earn more->afford life. Not at all.
BH we are doing okay. Hashem gives parnasa consistently.

DVOM

Sun, Jun 27 2021, 4:45 am

amother [ Razzmatazz ] wrote:

Tell me more ❤️ How are you doing it? I’m the one who posted about being on the bottom of this bracket...

The key for us was education and careers that we love. We invested in a lot of post graduate training for me. We invested in 7 years of schooling for my husband. Those were hard years, living on one income, both of us working very long hours, not really having any time, money, or energy to spare for anything other than school, work, our kids and each other.

My husband graduated about a year ago, been working about 9 months (slow start due to Covid). We're continuing our 'career investment' formula: my husband will attend a 4,000$ certification training this month in a subspecialty he's really enjoying. We pay about 4-600 dollars a month in specialized supervision and continued education for my work, but at this point other professionals pay me to supervise their work too, so it kinda of breaks even.

We still budget and spend carefully; we see no reason to stop. But the stress is no longer the same, and our budget can include little luxuries. As my husband is still at an entry level salary, we anticipate our income increasing as time goes on.

DVOM

Sun, Jun 27 2021, 4:50 am

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

DONT DO SPEECH!!!!
im a speech therapist!!! I walk away with nothing a the end of the month!! and I only have 1 baby now. im petrified about whats going to be when we have a big family iyh

I'm not a speech therapist, but I have a bunch of relatives who are and who are making a decent living from their work.

I'd say to find something you really love and think you'd be really excited to do.

I'm at the very end of a complicated pregnancy. I could have gone on disability leave 2 months ago. I didn't because I really love my work.

amother

Maroon

Sun, Jun 27 2021, 5:04 am

amother [ Heather ] wrote:

As far as I can tell ops relative isn’t even in kollel so why that has to be part of the discussion I don’t know. She said her sil is a stay at home mom with two kids who eats out all day.

Scroll up. Chayalle was responding to a random poster, not to OP. Some amother made a snarky kollel-bashing comment that had little to do with the thread and needed to be shot down before the entire thread went off the rails. End of story.

amother

Oldlace

Sun, Jun 27 2021, 5:22 am

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Newsflash: being a stay at home
Mom is a job too- otherwise you would be paying someone else for all the services stay at home mother does.

Yea]?
Like what]?

I'd love to be in on this because it all falls on me.

southernbubby

Sun, Jun 27 2021, 5:49 am

I was talking to a woman yesterday whose husband drives for a car service and she sometimes takes in babysitting. She plans a modest upsherin for her baby who was born after many years of secondary infertility. Her family can't understand why she is so unwilling to go into debt for such an important simcha. She just tells everyone that she has embraced minimalism.
I do see frum society as pushy when it comes to other people's money. My non frum siblings and in-law siblings might have expectations from their own kids but it doesn't look like anyone else is pressuring them to pay their way. I have had to tell one relative not to rely on us for financial help because this person was accustomed to looking around for deeper pockets rather than working more or spending less.
I do see in many life situations that people will take advantage of others unless that person is clear about boundaries which may involve being considered mean and stingy. A person who doesn't want to be a victim can't sit there and let people take advantage of him while he or she stews in silence or tells everyone but the advantage taker how used he or she feels. People like to think that whatever they do for themselves is fine with everyone else and they will continue to do it until whoever they are doing it to stops enabling it.