Can I use your house for free?

OOTforlife

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 10:12 am

Chayalle wrote:

BTW I also think there's a difference between posting in a public place vs. asking someone directly.

Public place - anyone who wants can respond, and anyone whom it doesn't work for doesn't feel personally asked, and won't feel bad not responding.

But personal asks can sometimes get awkward and uncomfortable.

Yes, this hits the nail on the head. I think such requests are fine to post on a listserv or community Whatsapp. Nobody is pressured to respond. People who want to rent for pay can offer their terms if they want.

But it's usually not nice to ask someone directly. If there are special circumstances, like someone having a dedicated apartment for hachnassas orchim, then it might be fine to ask that individual directly. Or if the circumstances are dire, like a bikur cholim situation on short notice, I would say not to worry about niceties. But if it's just the typical vacation or family visit, then I don't think ordinary people should be put on the spot.

Chayalle

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 10:13 am

amother [ Sand ] wrote:

We've lent out our house to friends and neighbors when we've gone away for Yom Tov. It's a little annoying because I can't just walk out the door and leave a mess if we're in a rush but I don't mind other than that. It's a normal favor for people to do/ask, not only in my neighborhood but also where our parents and relatives live. We've been on both the giving and recipient sides of house lending.

Same here. But I give it out to people I know (or their relatives) and I don't give out the master bedroom, which I lock.

amother

Hibiscus

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 10:47 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Asking someone with a standard size house and a whole family to let pple move in for weeks is a lot.

I agree with everything you wrote, except I think that asking someone with ANY size house to host as you've described, for an extended period etc. is not ok. If someone owns a mansion, does that make it ok for me to expect this of them?

I don't have a large house, btw, I just would never dream to ask for me or for anyone else.

amother

Salmon

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 11:07 am

This is a “live and learn” scenario. People need to figure out what kind of chessed they can realistically handle. I have figured out that I can handle guests over one Shabbos, or even over a short Yom Tov, but not during the week, and not for a long time. “fish and guests start to stink after 3 days.” Also it helps if the guests are there for a Simcha and you are friends with the baal Simcha.

When I was single I may have taken advantage of some peoples accommodations … but I had no idea. And then when I got married I wanted to be like the people in All for the Boss that had random weirdos sleeping on their couch for months at a time. But alas, first I saw that I couldn’t handle random weirdos, and then I saw that I couldn’t handle people in my space for more than 2-3 nights.

Rappel

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 11:11 am

There is a halacha that if you know that your request would put someone in a difficult position - for example, they don't really have spare xyz - then you're not allowed to ask for it, because then it's difficult for them to say no.

amother

Chestnut

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 1:54 pm

So I had ths this exact situation. I was asked by family (dh) if we can host them plus their kids for two weeks. I felt so uncomfortable saying no and said yes when I knew it will be so difficult for me. I really like my space and privacy. Plus my husband is unemployed and feeding a family of 6+is a huge financial strain. Even if they eat out here and there plus electric use of ac 24 hours and long long hot showers that she allowed her kids to take etc..they just left and didnt even bother with a hostess gift. I feel so hurt.

amother

Cappuccino

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 2:07 pm

amother [ Navyblue ] wrote:

Actually, that's called putting someone on the spot. That's not the way I was raised. It's a chutzpah and bad manners. You may find someone who is very polite and has a hard time saying no, but that doesn't mean you should take advantage of them. There are societal norms, and this is inappropriate in my opinion. Why ask for something for free? If you're going to treat them like a hotel, at least offer to pay.

If someone has a hard time saying no, that's their problem. There are people who are actually willing to give when asked, and people in need aren't mind readers. Why not allow open communication?

libadmin

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 3:14 pm

Someone from my neighborhood called me yesterday asking to use my guest room for this shabbos because her kids decided they wanted to come last minute. I said politely said it’s not available because I need more notice. When she asked if I knew anyone else, I said no because I don’t think it’s my place to offer other people. She sounded very annoyed after that but quite frankly I didn’t care.

imorethanamother

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 3:53 pm

After reading the book about Henny Machliss, I knew I couldn't be her. I knew I could never do what she does, but I decided that I can take on more than what I currently do.

Except during the height of Covid, I'm happy to have guests stay with me, whether I know you or not. Obviously, I can't promise being able to feed everyone for shabbos, but the space is there. What does it hurt me to let someone use it? And why not? The extra "electricity" and "water" is really minimal, as I discovered when I had no guests for an extended period of time. Like I think it amounts to the price of a few cups of coffee at Starbucks, at most.

I think it's important to remember that our spaces don't really belong to us. If you ever doubt that, get the citizen app and see how many break-ins there are around your neighborhood. They're there for us to use and to grow, they're tools, and they aren't truly ours. It's what you do with those spaces that counts.

I don't blame anyone for feeling anxious about people being in their bedrooms, but we can all think of ways to extend ourselves a bit.

Writergirl

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 3:59 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Thank you for saying this. What a beautiful attitude. Hashem should give you the strength and the means to continue this special mitzvah.

amother

Babyblue

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 4:21 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

I truly admire you for that.
I, for one, am extremely uncomfortable with the idea of people using my house while I’m not there. Never mind the pressure of leaving it perfectly clean and organized. Or them going through my private stuff. Simply can’t imagine. But I admire those who do it.

Like you I couldn't imagine letter anyone except my closest relatives or perhaps a best friend who I trusted implicitly stay in my house when I am not there.

I also would not want anyone but the closest people with whom I feel relaxed to stay in my home if I had to interact with them.

I really never feel relaxed when I know that anyone other than those with whom I live can pop up - for starters I feel like I always need to be somewhat dressed as opposed to wearing what I would normally wear with family.

Of course it is completely reciprocal as I would not want to stay in a stranger's home and unless there was absolutely nothing else, I wouldn't do that as I would be more comfortable in a hotel or an Air BnB.

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 4:53 pm

This reminds me of the time in seminary when we were asked if families could stay in our dorm rooms when we went away for shabbos. If you went to a Neve seminary you would understand. They have events happening there sometimes and will ask the seminaries there to give their rooms. I was the only girl that told the eim bayit that I didn’t want people sleeping in my room, and was later thanked by my roommate who said that she really didn’t want people to sleep in our room but felt embarrassed to speak up because nobody else was. So I think that is a case where asking is overstepping of boundaries.

amother

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 5:26 pm

To answer some questions

No my house is not a hachnos orchim house. My basement is small and the entrance is in the center of my house. That is also my storage, pantry, and laundry area so we are using the space regularly.

Like I said, if I know the family I am happy to host for a shabbos or for a Simcha but I get some crazy asks.

I think it's inappropriate to ask me to host for the entire Yom tov. Or for random people ur trying to help but you don't even know them, or for 3 weeks for a whole family and u want a free empty house utilities included.

I guess asking publicly doesn't put anyone on the spot but it doesn't look nice for you. You sound like a shnorer. At least post that you will pay for 3 weeks of utilities.

southernbubby

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 5:33 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

We don't do it either. My daughter did it and stuff was broken.

amother

Lotus

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 5:36 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

At least post that you will pay for 3 weeks of utilities.

Why would anyone assume that if you are home? You are using your own utilities? I would never ask to stay anywhere for 3 weeks, I’m just curious as to how you determine your guests cost you so much?

naturalmom5

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 5:36 pm

amother [ Leaf ] wrote:

Believe it or not there are people that love putting up others in their house for free!

Not me- but I know ppl who do!

I know a few, something about some dude Avraham..,

They beling to strange religion, Ju something...

doodlesmom

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 6:13 pm

I don’t think it’s okay to ask , because when people ask such outlandish requests then the host usually feels that they must be in dire need, and without any other options, and therefore will say yes even if it is very inconvenient and uncomfortable.

imorethanamother

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 6:21 pm

southernbubby wrote:

We don't do it either. My daughter did it and stuff was broken.

It happens. Sometimes they don't even realize things break. But by and large, things break around the house all the time. Did your daughter tell them? I find that when I point this out, people are horrified and more than willing to pay for any damages. People are generally good.

imorethanamother

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 6:24 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think it's inappropriate to ask me to host for the entire Yom tov. Or for random people ur trying to help but you don't even know them, or for 3 weeks for a whole family and u want a free empty house utilities included.

I guess asking publicly doesn't put anyone on the spot but it doesn't look nice for you. You sound like a shnorer. At least post that you will pay for 3 weeks of utilities.

Why is it crazy to ask to host for the "entire yom tov"? Did you want them to leave in the middle of the first night of Pesach?

Generally, people who are asking are stuck. Their parents don't have enough rooms. Baruch Hashem, with families approaching 12 kids or more (that post is hilarious), people need places to stay to be together with other families.

If you can't do it, don't do it. But they're not asking you to MAKE them yom tov, they're asking for sleeping space so they can be near their own relatives. I don't think that's an awful thing.

imorethanamother

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 6:26 pm

Writergirl wrote:

Thank you for saying this. What a beautiful attitude. Hashem should give you the strength and the means to continue this special mitzvah.

I'm embarrassed. I wrote under my screen name only so that if people want to yell at me for being ridiculous, they have the right address, lol.

I don't have a beautiful attitude. Like everyone else, I work and work on it. Sometimes I get resentful, and then Hashem sends me reminders that my house doesn't really belong to me. (Helloooo insect infestation!)

But that bracha is amazing, and I'll take it!!! Thank you!!! I need all the help I can get! I wish I was better at this. I wish I was Henny!