Please help plan Kiwi13's Aliyah!

Kiwi13

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 2:55 pm

Don't feel obligated to answer all of this. Anything is helpful.

First off, thank you for helping me bounce back from my devastation a couple nights ago. It was seriously helpful. I still think I'll never be the same, there was some lost innocence involved, but maybe that's okay. Maybe I don't need to let go of certain idealism even as I recognize that those ideals are not present in today's world. And what a bummer that is... but anyway, thank you. I'm more or less dealing with it better now.

Okay, so Aliyah.

PART 1: Community

In a nutshell, we're a family of 5 and very anglo. I'm cool with integrating into Israeli society but I know I'll do better with anglo friends and resources around too. According to my research so far, it seems like we really need to be within commutable distance to either Jerusalem or Haifa. I love the idea of some of the communities up north (Afula, Karmiel, etc.) but they're not practical for us in terms of the services needed by one of our children. Our two frontrunner areas are:

1. RBS. We'll consider anywhere in RBS. Bonus points for affordability and somewhat quieter surroundings, if that exists in RBS. We belong to the Chofetz Chaim yeshivish community in Rochester, NY, so a Shul that's similar would be awesome. Sincerely frum, heavy on middos growth, light on external trappings (hat type and other halachically arbitrary "dress code" factors). A mix of observance types is totally fine. I'm also quite comfortable with Dati leumi or chardal. I've always been pretty adaptive that way. ;-) My husband is much more comfortable in a yeshivish setting though.

2. Kiryat Shmuel (or similar area) in Haifa. I know less about it, but what I do know sounds awesome. I like that housing is less pricy. It's still close to a big city where my son can get special needs services and specialty medical care (although realistically we'd travel wherever we need to in the country for specialist appointments).

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PART 2: Finances, schools, and other details

B"H we have a house to sell before we move. I don't think it'll yield enough for a down payment on anything in Israel, though. We can hope, but I'm not expecting it. So basically, we'll be renting. I'm learning to think in NIS and meters, and I've gotten good at navigating Israeli (all Hebrew!) real estate sites. Be proud of me. ;-)

RBS rentals ("4 rooms"/3-bedroom) look to run approx. 5000? I know there are some for less than that, but realistically does 5000 sound about right for something roomy enough for 5 people, plus an outdoor area (mirpeset of some kind, sukkah porch)? It's my husband and me, our 5yo son, and 3yo twins. By the time we make Aliyah, they'll probably be at least a couple years older.

Kiryat Shmuel looks to be less expensive, maybe 4000? And it looks like you get a lot more space and quality for your money there, if I'm reading it correctly.

Are Arnona and Vaad bayit and utilities about the same for each of those two areas?

Schools: What are the options and what is the pricing per child? For mainstream, I have one boy and one girl. My SN child has unknown potential for mainstream, but for now he's fully in special ed and working on pre-academic skills at about a 2yo level (he turns 4 in a few months). The gap between him and similar aged peers is steadily widening as he gets older, which I guess is to be expected. He needs OT, PT, speech, and special ed. He has an unusual presentation of autism, possibly complicated by his genetic syndrome. It's not clear yet if he's cognitively impacted and to what degree. Regardless, he needs a school that can pay close attention to his needs, as he still needs 1:1 help keeping up with a basic preschool day.

What's a realistic grocery budget in Israel if we currently spend about $600/month on groceries in the US?

Private health insurance: What are the top of the line options? What does it buy you above the basic plans offered to all citizens? Cost per month for a family of 5?

Mental health services. I need careful med management for bipolar, which includes easy access to the doctor/nurse practitioner for adjustments here and there. Therapy is less of an issue these days. I figure I'll get to it if/when I have the headspace for it. B"H that's not my biggest need. (Thinking ahead though, what are the costs, and does insurance cover it?) I hope I never need it again, but is there inpatient psych? How long can they keep you? Does insurance cover it? (Asking because I need to cover my bases.)

Disability: I've heard that bipolar is considered a disability in Israel. As much as I hate to admit this, it's grueling and horrible but true, it sadly keeps me from working. I've struggled through every job I've ever held and never lasted very long. That feels like a shameful admission, but there it is. I do as much as I can freelancing from home, and B"H I've found success that way, but it's not reliable income. Some months are great, other months I'd be unable to pay the bills if I was the only one working. Is there disability assistance in Israel? Would I be likely to qualify? Please be nice, it's very embarrassing to me. It's a reality I need to face though. Would my SN child (autism and 22q) quality for financial assistance? How would we go about this process as new Olim?

Transportation: We're planning to have a car but take public transit whenever possible ($7-8/gallon for gas??!) How much is car insurance?

These are questions I've had trouble finding answers to on the NBN site, so thanks for any and all info you can offer.

What else should I be asking?

Once the borders are open and I have enough info to go on, I want to plan a pilot trip. That's probably when I'd lock into specifics to pursue further (RBS or Kiryat Shmuel/Haifa). And hey, I'll be vaccinated, so that's one less thing to worry about...

amother

Springgreen

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 3:21 pm

Not sure if you really need fully private healthcare. The kuppot cholim (health funds) all offer various upgrades to add to their basic plan. I'm using a small upgrade for me and 3 children and I don't even know how much it is - something like 300 - 400 שח per month for all of us together? 2 of my children had a full child development assessment and got speech therapy and occupational therapy through "the system". We got parental counseling as well for nearly 2 years. All with a only a few hundred shekels השתתפות עצמית. Both of them also got special ed kindergarten for speech impaired children and are going to start school in kitot ktanot (small special classes). Both had an additional evaluation by a children's psychiatrist just last month.

In other words, while they are relatively mildly affected (adhd and speech delay), we got a whole plan of diagnostics and treatment just via the ordinary kuppah. The only drawback are sometimes long waiting periods until one gets an appointment.

I'm certain that for your son you will be entitled to a lot more than what we got. Just saying.
Maybe take an ordinary kuppah with upgrade first and see what they can offer you. If that really doesn't suffice, you could still go private later.

Kiwi13

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 3:36 pm

amother [ Springgreen ] wrote:

That sounds like a good idea. I didn't realize there was a difference between the upgrades and private healthcare. You listed the deductible, but are there also copays? How much?

This sounds really promising. Thank you!

amother

Babypink

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 3:39 pm

[quote="Kiwi13"]Isn't that pricier than RBS? I've heard good (and expensive!) things about Modi'in. :-) I haven't considered it because of the cost.

What are the different health plans? (Maccabi, etc?) And what are the pros/cons of each? Do you get to choose which one you get?[/quote

Definitely pricier, but right now there's also a dearth of rentals. When you make it here that might change - we have whole neighborhoods going up.

So for the kuppot we have all of them, but Clalit and Leumit are the least represented. We are on Maccabi and we just upgraded to Sheli. It costs more but it's worth it, you have zechuyot with Maccabi Tivi (their natural medicine branch) as well. Also, DH is on ADD meds and I take birth control and prozac, we get a small discount on them. You do get to choose what kupah you take, that will depend on what city you move to. In places like Yerushalayim it may not matter what kupah you take because they're all fairly evenly represented. Here Maccabi is definitely the front runner. Either way definitely choose the option to upgrade right away - we waited and totally regret that.

wigboutique

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 3:41 pm

Hi, I can’t really answer on many questions here, but I just wanted to say good luck with making Aliyah! It’s really amazing of you to do this with a special needs child! I highly applaud you. May you have a smooth transition, and may you and your family receive a lot of brachos when you arrive! May you have tons of hashgacha pratis.

There are a lot of special needs programs available (like Sulam)
just keep in mind Haifa is farther from the embassies (you will need to renew passports, etc.)
we lived in the north but it just wasn’t working out for us due to how far everything was. Just from experience I have come across more jobs, medical professionals, etc in the center area. But then again I could be totally wrong because I have been to the charedi neighbourhood in Haifa and people there are very nice and seem very happy with their life. I think a pilot trip can help you with this regard.

Food is cheaper near Jerusalem, beit shemesh. Significantly. I used to go on trips to Jerusalem and shlep back food because of the price difference and variety in heimish type of options. All the sales for home stuff is included in there too. I think that food is more expensive than in the states, but it’s not worrying compared to knowing we have the zechus to live in the holy land.

If I were to pick just based on myself, I would be much happier in RBS. It’s a very nice, happy community where you can make friends with anyone. They’re building a few new neighborhoods (rbs D?) and a lot of the apartments face the forest or nature and it’s really nice. I have a friend who also has a special needs child and needs help for a mental disability and there are tons of available professionals who are also English speaking in the area.

At the end of the day, if you need to move to a different location, you can. many Israelis move around the country frequently to find their perfect location or neighbourhood. Getting a down payment is easier than in the states. If it might be enough, I would go for it.
Just go through a mortgage specialist who speaks English. I have seen a lot of houses and apartments go down in price in the last month. You could take advantage of that. I have seen some apartments that allow you to put a down payment as low as 30k.

Kiwi13

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 3:51 pm

wigboutique wrote:

WHAT?!!! HOW???? Tell me more!!!! I thought you had to put down between 25-40% of the purchase price! (Unless you meant 30% and not 30k, in which case it's not happening for us...)

RBS definitely sounds like the softest landing. I really hope we can figure it out there.

amother

Chestnut

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 3:55 pm

Israeli court gives Haifa Chemicals 10 days to empty ammonia tank

Haifa Bay area residents suffer excess of diseases, says Health Ministry

Public sensitivity reached a peak about three months ago when the Health Ministry released a position paper on the incidence of morbidity and illness in the region. The ministry’s paper stated unequivocally that Haifa has an increased rate of morbidity: Cancer rates are about 15% higher than in the rest of Israel; it leads the country in asthma and breathing problems; and the city also has the highest rate of heart disease. Given all these findings, the ministry vehemently opposes expanding operations of the petrochemical industries in the Haifa Bay area.

Because of the public’s concerns about pollution in the area, the Health Ministry’s position once again fueled the activities of social and environmental groups against heavy industry in and around Haifa.

The environmental organizations have a large number and a wide range of demands. The most extreme is a call for the entire petrochemical industry to be relocated away from the region – a demand whose price tag starts in the billions of shekels. It’s not clear if this is even possible, due to the need for close ties to the port area and oil refineries there, which the petrochemical industries depend on.

In any case, what the environmental groups fail to highlight in their anti-industry campaign are the data from the ministry directly responsible for the matter: the Environmental Protection Ministry. This is because these data are much more low-key than those of the Health Ministry and environmental groups.

The Environmental Protection Ministry data show that it’s far from clear the industrial plants in the area are the cause of the air pollution in the Haifa Bay region – or, at the very least, show they are not the chief culprit.

60% of the problem

The Environmental Protection Ministry’s most recent report, from June 2016, details the complex picture of air pollution in Haifa – which is definitely worse than in other parts of Israel – highlighting a number of factors: the topography of the bay area, which traps the air pollution inside (and about which nothing can be done); the combination of polluting petrochemical industries and a polluting seaport; the large number of polluting trucks traveling between the port and plants; a large number of gas stations; and the residents’ contribution to pollution through their use of cars and other pollutants from their homes.

Within this complex picture, the part played by industry itself is not the main problem. The most dangerous source of pollution is volatile organic compounds (VOCs), which are suspected of being carcinogenic. In the Haifa area today, factories emit only 27% of such organic compounds. The rest enter the air from gas stations (11%), households (23%) and, the largest source, transportation (37%).

It can be seen that household causes and transportation together create 60% of the pollutants. Yet still the criticism is directed almost solely at the industrial plants and not the public itself or transportation (both private and public).

The enormous campaign against industry in Haifa has shown signs of success. Since 2009, the Environmental Protection Ministry has been running a national plan to reduce pollution in the bay area. The first ran from 2010 through 2015, and the second plan, through 2018, is now underway.

(The Haaretz article)